Significant Numbers: Great to Know

Mithrandir · 01-29-2002, 09:50 PM

Tolkien has many reoccuring numbers, or significant numbers, that he uses throughout "The Lord of the Rings" and "The Silmarillion", just like some numbers in the Bible, like the number 40; 40 days and 40 nights Noah was in the flood. Also 40 days and 40 nights, Jesus fasted, and so on.

Here are ones that I have picked up so far for Tolkien:

3: 3 rings for the elves, 3 Silmarils, 3 companions(Aragorn, Legolas, Gimli in the beginning of TTT)

2: 2 Lamps of the Valar, 2 Trees of the Valar, 2 ring bearers (Frodo and Sam)

9: 9 Companions (The Fellowship), 9 rings for mortal men (Nazgul)

1: One Ring, One King (Aragorn), One Lord of the Ring

I also think 5 is a significant number but I can only think of one; there are 5 Istari. Are there 5 palantiri?

Please continue and add on if you find anymore significant numbers, thanks

Wayfarer · 01-29-2002, 09:56 PM

Seven stars, and seven stones, and one white tree.

There were originally nine valar as well.

Mithrandir · 01-29-2002, 09:58 PM

Yes, I almost forgot about the number 7. Thanks Wayfarer

We can also add 7 Rings for the Dwarf-lords

***HOBBIT*** · 01-30-2002, 12:35 AM

Wait a sec....................I remember this thread! I believe that this is a repeat. Let me go do some detective work........*sigh* repetitive threads...oh well.

Ã‘Ã³lendil · 01-30-2002, 12:39 PM

Ah yes! Three Hobbits journey to Buckland, and three people walk halfway down a cave to get to the Rainbow Cleft! And one main character for the Narn I Hin Hurin, and one main character of the Lord of the Rings! One person accepts the burden of the Ring from Gandalf, and one person begs Manwe to forgive his people! One person heals Faramir, and one person probably stubbed his toe somewhere at the same time!

*grumbles*

Mithrandir · 01-30-2002, 03:09 PM

And to add to the number 7:

-the Seven Fathers of the Dwarves (created by Aule)
-Seven Hours for the Trees of the Valar (Yavanna)

coolismo · 01-30-2002, 03:14 PM

4 wounds of Frodo

4 wounds to christ

(some say five wounds to christ so in the movie Frodo will get a fifth from the ring itself)

barrelrider110 · 01-30-2002, 03:35 PM

Mithrandir,
There were 7 Palantiri.

Mithrandir · 01-30-2002, 03:39 PM

Great, thanks barrelrider for the correction. Seven seems to be the most used number of Tolkien's so far

Pailan · 01-30-2002, 04:11 PM

And let's not forget- "Three times pays for all."

Pailan · 01-30-2002, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by HOBBIT
Wait a sec....................I remember this thread! I believe that this is a repeat. Let me go do some detective work........*sigh* repetitive threads...oh well.

Perhaps this is not the exact place to ask these question so forgive me if I err.

For the most part before I start a new thread I will do a quick search on the topic. I will generally join a thread if it interests me. But being here less than three months, I do not have the vast Ent like memory of some mooters. So if a thread is exhausted, (and buried deep in the vaults) is there a time span before it can be renewed, whether on purpose or accident? And wouldn't it be more constructive to point people in the direction of that thread so we don't re-invent the wheel every time we have have an influx of newcomers or what we think is an origional thread idea?

I see these complaints pop up from time to time, yet I have not seen them handled as well as they might've been. So I am just wondering what the policy is on repetitive threads?

Thanks, Pailan.

markedel · 01-30-2002, 06:21 PM

An interesting biblical link

40 is a sing of rebirth-40 day flood, 40 years in desert

Aragorn's name is "the renewer" and he is the 40th descendant including Isildur.

emplynx · 01-30-2002, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mithrandir
9: 9 Companions (The Fellowship), 9 rings for mortal men (Nazgul)

I believe that Elrond chose the 9 to match the 9 Nazgul...

Mithrandir · 01-30-2002, 09:35 PM

I don't recall Elrond ever purposely selecting 9 to match the nine riders, but I could be wrong.

He wanted the smallest group he could put together so they could travel fast and cover great distances of land. Also he wanted to get at least one person from each race to be in the company. I will quote my friend here, "every race shall play a part in the history of the world"

Starr Polish · 01-30-2002, 09:42 PM

I believe he did...I'm too lazy to go get out teh book and look it up, but I'm fairly sure it was to match the 9 nazgul.

Mithrandir · 01-30-2002, 10:06 PM

Yep, I took up the book and found it:

'The Company of the Ring shall be Nine; and the Nine Walkers shall be set against the Nine Riders that are evil.'

markedel · 02-01-2002, 04:37 PM

And 9 ships of the numenoreans from the sea.

Kwijibo · 02-01-2002, 05:56 PM

Yep, there were 5 palantirs. I think *I hope*
___________________________
I have 1. I communicate with Sauron. BEWARE!!

Kwijibo · 02-01-2002, 05:58 PM

No, I believe I was wrong - sooooooory.

Ã‘Ã³lendil · 02-01-2002, 06:06 PM

There were eight PalantÃ*ri, seven given to the Faithful NÃºmenÃ³reans and one master stone in AvallonÃ«.

01-29-2002, 09:50 PM	#1
Mithrandir Hobbit Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: MA Posts: 39	Significant Numbers: Great to Know Tolkien has many reoccuring numbers, or significant numbers, that he uses throughout "The Lord of the Rings" and "The Silmarillion", just like some numbers in the Bible, like the number 40; 40 days and 40 nights Noah was in the flood. Also 40 days and 40 nights, Jesus fasted, and so on. Here are ones that I have picked up so far for Tolkien: 3: 3 rings for the elves, 3 Silmarils, 3 companions(Aragorn, Legolas, Gimli in the beginning of TTT) 2: 2 Lamps of the Valar, 2 Trees of the Valar, 2 ring bearers (Frodo and Sam) 9: 9 Companions (The Fellowship), 9 rings for mortal men (Nazgul) 1: One Ring, One King (Aragorn), One Lord of the Ring I also think 5 is a significant number but I can only think of one; there are 5 Istari. Are there 5 palantiri? Please continue and add on if you find anymore significant numbers, thanks __________________ Frodo Lives!!! spread the word!!

01-29-2002, 09:56 PM	#2
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	Seven stars, and seven stones, and one white tree. There were originally nine valar as well. __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

01-29-2002, 09:58 PM	#3
Mithrandir Hobbit Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: MA Posts: 39	Yes, I almost forgot about the number 7. Thanks Wayfarer We can also add 7 Rings for the Dwarf-lords __________________ Frodo Lives!!! spread the word!!

01-30-2002, 12:35 AM	#4
*HOBBIT* Saviour of Entmoot Admiral Join Date: Nov 1999 Location: NC/NJ (no longer Same place as bmilder.) Posts: 61,986	Wait a sec....................I remember this thread! I believe that this is a repeat. Let me go do some detective work........sigh repetitive threads...oh well. __________________ President Emeritus (2000-2004) Private message (or email) me if you need any assistance. I am here to help! "I'm up to here with cool, ok? I'm so amazingly cool you could keep a side of meat in me for a month. I am so hip I have difficulty seeing over my pelvis" - Zaphod Beeblebrox Latest Blog Post: Just Quit Facebook? No One Cares!

01-30-2002, 12:39 PM	#5
Ã‘Ã³lendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	Ah yes! Three Hobbits journey to Buckland, and three people walk halfway down a cave to get to the Rainbow Cleft! And one main character for the Narn I Hin Hurin, and one main character of the Lord of the Rings! One person accepts the burden of the Ring from Gandalf, and one person begs Manwe to forgive his people! One person heals Faramir, and one person probably stubbed his toe somewhere at the same time! grumbles __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

01-30-2002, 03:09 PM	#6
Mithrandir Hobbit Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: MA Posts: 39	And to add to the number 7: -the Seven Fathers of the Dwarves (created by Aule) -Seven Hours for the Trees of the Valar (Yavanna) __________________ Frodo Lives!!! spread the word!!

01-30-2002, 03:14 PM	#7
coolismo Enting Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: south england Posts: 93	4 wounds of Frodo 4 wounds to christ (some say five wounds to christ so in the movie Frodo will get a fifth from the ring itself)

01-30-2002, 03:35 PM	#8
barrelrider110 Peer of the realm of Sanguine Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Hill, Marlton, NJ Posts: 798	Mithrandir, There were 7 Palantiri.

01-30-2002, 03:39 PM	#9
Mithrandir Hobbit Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: MA Posts: 39	Great, thanks barrelrider for the correction. Seven seems to be the most used number of Tolkien's so far __________________ Frodo Lives!!! spread the word!!

01-30-2002, 04:11 PM	#10
Pailan Elven Warrior Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: aisle 12, seat#2 Posts: 449	And let's not forget- "Three times pays for all." __________________ "Holy Entmoot, Batman!" "Who knows, Robin? This strange mixing of minds may be the greatest single sevice ever performed for humanity! Let's go, but, inconspicuosly, through the window. We'll use our Batropes. Our job is finished." Oh, btw, Frodo lives.

01-30-2002, 06:21 PM	#12
markedel 'Sober' Mullet Frosh Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Queen's Posts: 1,245	An interesting biblical link 40 is a sing of rebirth-40 day flood, 40 years in desert Aragorn's name is "the renewer" and he is the 40th descendant including Isildur. __________________ "Earnur was a man like his father in valour, but not in wisdom"

01-30-2002, 09:35 PM	#14
Mithrandir Hobbit Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: MA Posts: 39	I don't recall Elrond ever purposely selecting 9 to match the nine riders, but I could be wrong. He wanted the smallest group he could put together so they could travel fast and cover great distances of land. Also he wanted to get at least one person from each race to be in the company. I will quote my friend here, "every race shall play a part in the history of the world" __________________ Frodo Lives!!! spread the word!!

01-30-2002, 09:42 PM	#15
Starr Polish Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Slow down and I sail on the river, slow down and I walk to the hill Posts: 2,389	I believe he did...I'm too lazy to go get out teh book and look it up, but I'm fairly sure it was to match the 9 nazgul. __________________ â€œThe whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.â€ â€“Bertrand Russell

01-30-2002, 10:06 PM	#16
Mithrandir Hobbit Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: MA Posts: 39	Yep, I took up the book and found it: 'The Company of the Ring shall be Nine; and the Nine Walkers shall be set against the Nine Riders that are evil.' __________________ Frodo Lives!!! spread the word!!

02-01-2002, 04:37 PM	#17
markedel 'Sober' Mullet Frosh Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Queen's Posts: 1,245	And 9 ships of the numenoreans from the sea. __________________ "Earnur was a man like his father in valour, but not in wisdom"

02-01-2002, 05:56 PM	#18
Kwijibo Elven Warrior Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Lothlorien (actually Wales, but let's not talk about that) Posts: 117	Yep, there were 5 palantirs. I think I hope ___________________________ I have 1. I communicate with Sauron. BEWARE!!

02-01-2002, 05:58 PM	#19
Kwijibo Elven Warrior Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Lothlorien (actually Wales, but let's not talk about that) Posts: 117	No, I believe I was wrong - sooooooory.

02-01-2002, 06:06 PM	#20
Ã‘Ã³lendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	There were eight PalantÃ*ri, seven given to the Faithful NÃºmenÃ³reans and one master stone in AvallonÃ«. __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

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