Gollum and Balin's Diary

rollingskullandbones · 01-25-2002, 10:36 PM

Okay I have two questions and I read all of the Lord of the Ring books and the Hobbit and I loved them and I just did the last one for a book report. My friend was going to do book 2 but didnt read it and when he gave it he left out like book 3 so I kind of had to explain it for a while and then we explained ROTK, everybody looked like they had no idea what I was talking about. Any suggestions? I am starting on the Silmarrillion. Did anybody like that?
Anyway about Gollum. He is supposed to be a hobbit. Now is he like a mutated hobbit because I just could not find that out abot him in the book. Is that what hobbits look like when they are really old? Is that what happens when you use the ring too much? Anybody know the answer?
I did not however read the appendixes and I was wondering whatever happened to the book they found in Moria about Balin and the dwarves and their death that Gandalf found and gave to (was it Merry or Pippin I forgot). Whatever happened to that?

Renille · 01-26-2002, 01:06 AM

I don't know about the Balin thing, but I just got corrected on the Gollum problem a couple weeks ago, and now I know the truth. (Yipee!)

Gollum's race were the descendants of the Stoors, which, yes, was a hobbit family. I concluded they were a branch of the Stoors, not the actual descendants, because I think that's what the book says. Anyway, look in The Shadows of the Past, which is chapter 2, book 1 in the Fellowship of the Ring. It tells all about it.(And yes, Gollum was consumed by the ring over many, many years. He wasted away, but the ring kept him from dying. He became emanciated and shrunken, but the ring (and later, the longing for the ring,) kept him hanging in there.)

CardenIAntauraNauco · 01-26-2002, 01:11 AM

Gollum was some 500-600 yrs old... He had lived in a cave pond for many of those years and has slowly degenerated. And yes, the ring is corruptong him both internally and externally. Gollum was once a stoor (type of hobbit) I'm not sure what the physical differences were between shire hobbits and stoors are. We'll have to wait for some of the more learned scholars to post.

Iv'e always been curious... Had he worn the ring the entire time he owned it would it prolong his aging process keeping him from looking worse as it did with Bilbo...or would it corrupt him more and make him look worse. It seems that the process of aging and the ring oppose each other so I am confused as to how they contribute to one another in Gollum's appearance.

As to the records,
They were dropped. Gandalf didn't give anyone the record book.

Starr Polish · 01-26-2002, 01:19 AM

Hrmmph...after falling out of my broken desk chair severla times, I can finally type up some of the stuff I found. Hrrmph.

From 'Concerning Hobbits' in FOTR:
The Harfoots were browner of skin, smaller and shorter, and they were beardless and bootless; their hands and feet were neat and nimble; they preferred highlands and hillsides. The Stoors were broader, heavier in build; their hands and feet were larger, and they preferred flat lands and riversides. The Fallohides were fairer of skin and also of hair, and they were taller and slimmer than the others; they were lovers of trees and of woodlands.

I think the Harfoots were basically the Shire hobbits, but it says also that 'Even in Bilbo's time the strong Fallohidish strain coudl still be noted among the greater familes, such as the Tooks and the Masters of Buckland'. The Fallohides were the most adventorous, and I guess that makes sense that the Tooks shoud have that strain.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, oh Tolkien masters, since I am new to this, but this is what I think.

Renille · 01-26-2002, 01:29 AM

The Harfoots had more dealings with dwarves, and roamed westward early, over Eridor and even Weathertop and were the most numerous; they started the hole thing. (the typical Shire-hobbits, yes.) The Stoors stayed by Anduin, and were less shy of men. They followed the Loudwater southwards after they headed west. And the Fallowhides were a northerly branch. They liked elves most, and had more skill of language and song, and liked hunting as opposed to tilling. (I always think elf-like)

From the "Shadow of the Past" (describing Gollum's people)

"Long after, but still very long ago, there lived by the banks of the great river on the edge of Wilderland a clever-handed and quiet footed little people. I guess they were of hobbit-kind; akin to the fathers of the fathers of the Stoors, for they loved the River, and often swam in it, or made little boats out of reeds."

Oh...so he WAS a hobbit. I stand corrected. By myself. How pathetic can I get???

Wayfarer · 01-26-2002, 05:23 PM

Note also that the picture of a 'mutated hobbit' is most likely in error.

Gollum was surely as degenerate as any human would be after living in a cave foir five senturies. And he was definitly emaciated ffrom hunger, But he was still recognizeable as almost-human.

I think the Bakashi film got it best... he was thin, and bony, and pale, and all-together broken looking, but he wasn't a completely different creature.

I really doubt that he had black skin. (but he did have glowing green eyes, for some reason.)

sun-star · 01-27-2002, 10:17 AM

Glowing green eyes - for seeing in the dark, maybe.

Ñólendil · 01-27-2002, 07:15 PM

All the passages that specifically talk about the hue of Gollum's skin in the Lord of the Rings make him out to have pale white skin. He's often described as 'black' and once as 'dark as darkness' (usually at times of night and once underground). Gollum might have worn very dark clothing.

Legolas_BowKing · 01-27-2002, 07:44 PM

I think that in the movie he did not seem evin enough. He look as though he was a little puppy the way he blinked and looked at the company in Moria.

01-25-2002, 10:36 PM	#1
rollingskullandbones Sapling Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 4	Gollum and Balin's Diary Okay I have two questions and I read all of the Lord of the Ring books and the Hobbit and I loved them and I just did the last one for a book report. My friend was going to do book 2 but didnt read it and when he gave it he left out like book 3 so I kind of had to explain it for a while and then we explained ROTK, everybody looked like they had no idea what I was talking about. Any suggestions? I am starting on the Silmarrillion. Did anybody like that? Anyway about Gollum. He is supposed to be a hobbit. Now is he like a mutated hobbit because I just could not find that out abot him in the book. Is that what hobbits look like when they are really old? Is that what happens when you use the ring too much? Anybody know the answer? I did not however read the appendixes and I was wondering whatever happened to the book they found in Moria about Balin and the dwarves and their death that Gandalf found and gave to (was it Merry or Pippin I forgot). Whatever happened to that?

01-26-2002, 01:06 AM	#2
Renille Elven Lady of Speed-posting Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the cheese state Posts: 988	I don't know about the Balin thing, but I just got corrected on the Gollum problem a couple weeks ago, and now I know the truth. (Yipee!) Gollum's race were the descendants of the Stoors, which, yes, was a hobbit family. I concluded they were a branch of the Stoors, not the actual descendants, because I think that's what the book says. Anyway, look in The Shadows of the Past, which is chapter 2, book 1 in the Fellowship of the Ring. It tells all about it.(And yes, Gollum was consumed by the ring over many, many years. He wasted away, but the ring kept him from dying. He became emanciated and shrunken, but the ring (and later, the longing for the ring,) kept him hanging in there.) __________________ Oh the thinks you can think! Think and wonder and dream...far and wide as you dare! When your thinks have run dry, in the blink of an eye, there's another world there... (from Seussical the Musical. Listen to it...watch it...really.)

01-26-2002, 01:11 AM	#3
CardenIAntauraNauco Elven Warrior Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: rural oklahoma Posts: 324	Gollum was some 500-600 yrs old... He had lived in a cave pond for many of those years and has slowly degenerated. And yes, the ring is corruptong him both internally and externally. Gollum was once a stoor (type of hobbit) I'm not sure what the physical differences were between shire hobbits and stoors are. We'll have to wait for some of the more learned scholars to post. Iv'e always been curious... Had he worn the ring the entire time he owned it would it prolong his aging process keeping him from looking worse as it did with Bilbo...or would it corrupt him more and make him look worse. It seems that the process of aging and the ring oppose each other so I am confused as to how they contribute to one another in Gollum's appearance. As to the records, They were dropped. Gandalf didn't give anyone the record book. __________________ "We will have peace","Yes we will have peace...we will have peace when you and all your works have perished - and the works of your dark lord to whom you would deliver us. You are a liar,Saruman,and a corrupter of men's hearts. You hold out your hand to me and I percieve only a finger of the claw of Mordor. Cruel and cold! Even if your war on me was just - as it was not,for were you ten times as wise you would have no right to rule me and mine, for your own profit you desired-even so, what will you say of your Torches in westfold and the children that lie dead there? And they hewed Hama's body before the gates of Hornburg, after he was dead. When you hang from a gibbet at your window for the sport of your own crows, I will have peace with you and Orthanc. So much for the House of Eorl. A lesser son of greater Sires am I, but I do not need to lick your fingers. Turn elsewither for I fear your voice has lost it's charm. Last edited by CardenIAntauraNauco : 01-26-2002 at 01:16 AM.

01-26-2002, 01:19 AM	#4
Starr Polish Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Slow down and I sail on the river, slow down and I walk to the hill Posts: 2,389	Hrmmph...after falling out of my broken desk chair severla times, I can finally type up some of the stuff I found. Hrrmph. From 'Concerning Hobbits' in FOTR: The Harfoots were browner of skin, smaller and shorter, and they were beardless and bootless; their hands and feet were neat and nimble; they preferred highlands and hillsides. The Stoors were broader, heavier in build; their hands and feet were larger, and they preferred flat lands and riversides. The Fallohides were fairer of skin and also of hair, and they were taller and slimmer than the others; they were lovers of trees and of woodlands. I think the Harfoots were basically the Shire hobbits, but it says also that 'Even in Bilbo's time the strong Fallohidish strain coudl still be noted among the greater familes, such as the Tooks and the Masters of Buckland'. The Fallohides were the most adventorous, and I guess that makes sense that the Tooks shoud have that strain. Please correct me if I'm wrong, oh Tolkien masters, since I am new to this, but this is what I think. __________________ “The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.” –Bertrand Russell

01-26-2002, 01:29 AM	#5
Renille Elven Lady of Speed-posting Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the cheese state Posts: 988	The Harfoots had more dealings with dwarves, and roamed westward early, over Eridor and even Weathertop and were the most numerous; they started the hole thing. (the typical Shire-hobbits, yes.) The Stoors stayed by Anduin, and were less shy of men. They followed the Loudwater southwards after they headed west. And the Fallowhides were a northerly branch. They liked elves most, and had more skill of language and song, and liked hunting as opposed to tilling. (I always think elf-like) From the "Shadow of the Past" (describing Gollum's people) "Long after, but still very long ago, there lived by the banks of the great river on the edge of Wilderland a clever-handed and quiet footed little people. I guess they were of hobbit-kind; akin to the fathers of the fathers of the Stoors, for they loved the River, and often swam in it, or made little boats out of reeds." Oh...so he WAS a hobbit. I stand corrected. By myself. How pathetic can I get??? __________________ Oh the thinks you can think! Think and wonder and dream...far and wide as you dare! When your thinks have run dry, in the blink of an eye, there's another world there... (from Seussical the Musical. Listen to it...watch it...really.) Last edited by Renille : 01-26-2002 at 01:30 AM.

01-26-2002, 05:23 PM	#6
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	Note also that the picture of a 'mutated hobbit' is most likely in error. Gollum was surely as degenerate as any human would be after living in a cave foir five senturies. And he was definitly emaciated ffrom hunger, But he was still recognizeable as almost-human. I think the Bakashi film got it best... he was thin, and bony, and pale, and all-together broken looking, but he wasn't a completely different creature. I really doubt that he had black skin. (but he did have glowing green eyes, for some reason.) __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

01-27-2002, 10:17 AM	#7
sun-star Lady of Letters Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Either Oxford or Kent, England Posts: 2,476	Glowing green eyes - for seeing in the dark, maybe. __________________ And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool.

01-27-2002, 07:15 PM	#8
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	All the passages that specifically talk about the hue of Gollum's skin in the Lord of the Rings make him out to have pale white skin. He's often described as 'black' and once as 'dark as darkness' (usually at times of night and once underground). Gollum might have worn very dark clothing. __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

01-27-2002, 07:44 PM	#9
Legolas_BowKing Banned Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 115	I think that in the movie he did not seem evin enough. He look as though he was a little puppy the way he blinked and looked at the company in Moria.