A lady Istari?

[Kirinki54]

I think it would have been nice if at least one of the Istari had been a lady. Any suggestions?

[emplynx]

NO!

[Vanimdil]

Hmm, if one is looking for a lady wielder of--well, humans would say magic --Galadriel seems pretty satisfactory to me. Of course if you want someone more powerful, there's Luthien or Melian. And of course, right at the top, Elbereth. Somehow I just can't picture a lady Istari. I keep getting this image of a long white beard---this is worse than the dwarven women!!

[Wayfarer]

No. I think the Istari were great the way they were in the books.

And hey, if Melian gives us any clue, she would prolly have ended up sleeping with someone and abandoned the whole thing.

]: )

But hey, a female wizard wouldn't be a problem with me... just, not at the expense of replacing one of the originals.

[FrodoFriend]

Wizards have always been male. I've never heard of a female wizard, they're always witches or sorceresses or something. Super powerful females would be cool, but why call them Istari? And I agree that Galadriel and Melian should qualify.

[Ñólendil]

It would have been cool just for variety, I suppose. Actually there may very well have been female Istari, but only males appear to have come to Middle-earth. Different texts would seem to imply that there were not only five in that order.

We know for sure that Curumo, Olórin and Aiwendil were all male, that leaves the Blue Wizards. But Pallando, Alatar, or (the later names) Romenstar/Romenstámo, Morinehtar sound masculine. Tolkien said all five had beards, anyway, and they came looking like old Men, not Dwarves.

I don't see why there couldn't have been a female Istar or two (or three or four or five, etc.,) back in the Blessed Realm.

[Sirithdal]

oi! I can't stand to see or read this anymore, and I see no reason why you should either. Oi.

[Ñólendil]

Welcome!

I don't really agree. I think you could say that there are feminine beings of equal or greater power and importance in Middle Earth, particularly in the first and second ages. The numerous maia , who I think are mainly female, such as Goldberry who Tom Bombadill dotes after, is an example.

It is definitely not concrete that Goldberry was a Maia. But Kirinki was wondering about female Istari, not just female anybodies(-who-can-do-magic). The Wizards were Maiar, this was revealed by Tolkien in several letters published in The Letters of J. R. R. Tolkien and also in Unfinished Tales. So your theory is correct.

[Kirinki54]

Originally posted by Sirithdal

The identity and origins of the Istari are somewhat mysterious, but I believe they also are related to or are physical manifestations of the maia. This is my theory, anyway.

I strongly recommend that you read The Silmarillion , if you have not already done so.

My friend, I read The Sil first time when it was published (which IIRC was 1977) and I see nothing that would totally oppose one or more female wizard of the Istari order.

Their origin was not really mysterious, it is thoroughly explained in LotR, The Sil, UT and so on.

I sometimes find it interesting to speculate a bit if the companies appearing in LotR were not so male dominated: The Fellowship of the Ring, the Nazgul, the Istari... The only exception I can think of is Galadriel active in The White Council.

So while I would not really want to change the texts and advocate a lady Istari, the thoughts of alternative courses are fantasy-evoking...

[Ñólendil]

Istar, no 'i'. I'm sorry, I couldn't stand it, I have to say that. The singular form is Istar.

[William Wallace]

the Istari are the wizards right?

[Captain Stern]

the Istari are the wizards right?

yes

I have to agree, I wouldn't like to see a female Istar either, I don't think it would fit in with Tolkien's mythos, with females (of any race; be they Man, Elf or Ainu) playing spousal/ supportive roles throughout the ages. On the other hand there is Eowyn

NO!

[Sirithdal]

Dear Kirinki54,

I'm sorry if I displayed my ignorance by suggesting you may not have read The Silmarillion. It's been a while since I read it, I know. If I was presumptuous, well, at least I said "if" you had not already read it. In any case, let me try a different line.

I believe your main complaint or concern is that women do not have more prominent roles in the trilogy. Well, I would defintely agree with that. The same applies to the movie, which was truly fabulous, by the way.

It turns out that only two wizards have any role to play in the trilogy - Saruman and Gandalf; the other three that came to Middle Earth ca. III, 1100 are hardly even mentioned. Maybe if J.Rs had included more wizards in the story he might have considered including a female Istar, but I wonder if this really would have worked.

Wizards (Istari) are men, it seems. Women are ... well, something else! (and that's no lie)

I would very much have liked to see more women of magical power in the trilogy, as well as more common women-folk -- more female characters. Some of the female Hobbits and female hobbit children were simply adorable. Of course, one result of JRs omission is that the women he does include become all the more special.

Kate as Galadriel was perfect. She has a natural set of eyes, the shape, dignity and a peculiar something else besides -- something ancient and glittering, I think. I also loved Tyler as Arwen, another natural elf. And, hey, did you happen to notice in the movie the two female forest guards which made up most of the party that made Gimli sputter his faux-paux in "The Lady's" forest? Those were some formidable she-elfs, baby! So noble, strong and fair.

There must be more, yes more, about Arwen's decision and supreme sacrifice in marrying Aragorn - so long as things in the movies yet to be made are elastic - for this is one of the most profound and beautiful love themes that I can think of.

[Kirinki54]

Originally posted by Inoldonil
Istar, no 'i'. I'm sorry, I couldn't stand it, I have to say that. The singular form is Istar.

Of course, Teach. I´ll write it 100 times...

[Kirinki54]

Originally posted by Sirithdal
Arwen's magic at the river was most memorable.

I don´t want to be grumpy, but I suggest that we keep what appears in the movie apart from any discussions on text.
As for the rest of your post, hope to answer more later. Have to dash off to work...
Stay well, Sirthdal!

[Ñólendil]

It turns out that only two wizards have any role to play in the trilogy - Saruman and Gandalf; the other three that came to Middle Earth ca. III, 1100 are hardly even mentioned

Two of the Wizards came in the Second Age, around 1600. The other (besides Saruman and Gandalf) is mentioned by name in The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings: Radagast, Radagast the Brown. He plays an important part in the Lord of the Rings. It was him that Saruman sent to Gandalf as a messenger, telling Gandalf to seek Saruman for aid, and that the Nine were abroad. 'Honest Radagast' was fooled by Saruman and didn't know that Saruman had turned to evil, and so was Gandalf imprisoned. But it was Radagast who brought about Gandalf's rescue as well. Gandalf told Radagast to tell all the birds and beasts that were his friends of their peril, and to send messengers to Orthanc. Radagast did this and sent Gwaihir the Windlord to Orthanc, and thus was the Grey Wizard saved.

[Radagast]

Yes, I get out a lot like that.

[ArwenEvenstar]

I think that would be cool if there was female Ishtar, but the Ishtari are fine the way they are....

[ArwenEvenstar]

hey sweet im an elven warrior!!!

[Thrain of the Shire]

I think I read the original thread opener differently to some of you...(but then I've been told about that kind of thing before)

I like the serious discussion re possibilities and the idea that such a discussion can be fantasy evoking and start us down our own fantasy paths...

I hardly think that anyone is suggesting that JRR be rewritten and characters changed to females -- that would be like rewriting the Narnia books to leave out Aslan...oh, wait a minute....