Have you heard?

[samwise of the shire]

When the Taliban left the city in Afghanistan, men actually lined up infront of barber shops to cut off their beards and women raised their veils off their faces when before they would have been beaten or shot and in addition while this was going on they shouted "America! America!" I have a feeling Afganistans as a people are backing us more then we thought, I think that is SOOOO COOL. And those Christian UN workers have been relised. Praise God!
Sam.
Ps. If you wanna use this thread as a discussion for the war feel free.

[Ben]

There is definitely something fishy about the Taliban's hasty retreat, and I am very concerned about Bin Laden's recent boast about having nuclear capabilities.

In Harry Turtledove's alternate history/sci fi series Worldwar, aliens invaded Earth in the middle of World War II, forcing the Axis and Allies to band together. The humans discovered atomic technology, and one of their strategies was to lure the more powerful enemy into a city by retreating, and then detonating an atomic bomb.

Bin Laden may have created at least a "dirty," less powerful nuclear explosive and left it as a surprise in Kabul. If he indeed has the technology (and we must hope that he doesn't, obviously), I can't see him not trying to use it as a last resort before his final defeat.

[Dfsg]

Well, its nice to see that some of the people back us up. I think that US intelligence would know if Afganistan had nuclear technology.

I hope we just get bin laden and the Taliban out of there, and make a better life for the people.

[HOBBIT]

gee Ben, I was planning on reading that series. Guess there is no point now. Thanks for spoiling the ending.

[ryan]

Whoever said they didn't have nuclear technology was for the most part wrong.. the US knows bin laden can, will, and may have already gotten ahold of nuclear missiles and such.. So don't be surprised if something gets bombed pretty soon

[Darkhalcyon]

Afghanistan isn't bin Laden's home, though. I'm sure, judging by the type of person he seems to be, once the taliban can no longer support him, he'll leave and find some other nation to try and leech off of. He'll be hard-pressed to find such a place, but hey, he does have plenty of supporters.

As for the people celibrating, you should watch what you hear. It may or may not be true. just as those countries have anti-american propaganda, we have pro american propaganda. i don't think it's flat out lies, and i'm sure people are much happier there now, but i'm also sure that american reporters may have exaggerated.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Darkhalcyon
Afghanistan isn't bin Laden's home, though. I'm sure, judging by the type of person he seems to be, once the taliban can no longer support him, he'll leave and find some other nation to try and leech off of. He'll be hard-pressed to find such a place, but hey, he does have plenty of supporters.

Well, the way things are going right now, I think he would be very very lucky if he can make it out of Afghanistan without being captured or killed. And if he does make it out, I don't think another country will accept him, and be willing to face what Afghanistan faced in being attacked by the U.S. The U.S. goverment has made it clear, that anyone who harbours him, will be attacked.

[ryan]

Ok, im going to try quoting, lets hope this works

Well, the way things are going right now, I think he would be very very lucky if he can make it out of Afghanistan without being
captured or killed

The news this morning reported that it was likely he escaped to pakistan through one of many smuggling trails months ago, possibly only weeks after Sept. 11, dressed as a woman.

Kind of makes you think...

Bin Laden?

[gdl96]

I'd rather have Bin Laden nuke Kabul than the US. I don't think that nuking Kabul is very likely either. Nothing much is accomplished from that.

[Darkside Spirit]

A very, very important distinction is between thermonuclear fusion weapons and old atomic fission bombs. We should really be aware of it much more, not only when dealing with Osama bin Laden, but when assessing the capabilities of people like Saddam Hussein. Quite a lot of people don't even know that there's a difference.

Atomic fission bombs (e.g. Hiroshima, Nagasaki) are literally only a thousandth of the power of thermonuclear bombs. The real thread to the world emerged not in 1945 when the fission explosive was developed, but in 1952 when the US detonated the first fusion bomb.

It's quite possible that Saddam Hussein, Osama bin Laden, and other people have fission but not fusion weapons. Even fission weapons are well enough to cause great concern, but there's a big technological and effectiveness gap between the two.

[Tessar]

1/1000th the power of an atomic fission bomb??!!! I think I'm gonna be sick. I really hope bin Laden and Saddam don't have either kind.

On a slightly different topic, once we've finished with Afghanistan, does anyone think we'll take out Saddam while we're on a roll?
I heard that it is possible the anthrax came from Iraq.

(Darn! I did it again. Sorry, this is actually Miriel)

[galadriel]

i heard the same thing. but until we know, let's try not to get the entire anti-american world incredibly angry at us all at once.

saddam has to die of old age eventually, right??? (although that's not to say that someone nearly as horrible won't take his place, unless america intervenes. let's just hope it's a peaceful intervention. although admittedly things haven't turned out too bad in afghanistan, it's still much, much better to avoid war if possible.)

[Bacchus]

Originally posted by Darkside Spirit
A very, very important distinction is between thermonuclear fusion weapons and old atomic fission bombs. We should really be aware of it much more, not only when dealing with Osama bin Laden, but when assessing the capabilities of people like Saddam Hussein. Quite a lot of people don't even know that there's a difference.

Atomic fission bombs (e.g. Hiroshima, Nagasaki) are literally only a thousandth of the power of thermonuclear bombs. The real thread to the world emerged not in 1945 when the fission explosive was developed, but in 1952 when the US detonated the first fusion bomb.

It's quite possible that Saddam Hussein, Osama bin Laden, and other people have fission but not fusion weapons. Even fission weapons are well enough to cause great concern, but there's a big technological and effectiveness gap between the two.

This is fairly accurate, but I'd like to expand, if i may.

A fission weapon uses a fission reaction-a large atom being broken into two smaller atoms. This is the type of reaction used in nuclear power plants. Typical weapons-grade fissile materials include Uranium 235 and Plutonium. The reaction is triggerred by compressing the fissile material into a supercritical mass through the use of conventional explosives. This type of bomb typically has a relatively small explosive yield (for a nuclear weapon) with relatively high radiation.

A fusion weapon involves isotopes of hydrogen being fused into helium atoms. This is the same reaction used in the sun. The energy released from a fusion reaction is much greater than from a fission reaction, as far more matter is converted into energy. There is also much less radiation associated with a fusion reaction. The problem is that the only known way to achieve the heat and pressure necessary to trigger a fusion reaction is through the use of a fission bomb.

The yield of the Hiroshima and Nagasaki weapons was about 12 kilotons. (A kiloton is explosive force equivalent to 1000 tons of TNT) By comparison, the Oklahoma City bomb was probably in the ballpark of 100 tons. So, although these weapons were very small by modern standards, they were still devastating. Look at it this way: in WWII, we firebombed Tokyo and killed thousands with little effect on Japan's resolve in the war. These two bombs broke the Japanese spirit and ended the war. The upper limit on yield for a fission bomb is somewhere in the 500 kt range. The largest fusion bomb ever tested had a yield in the 10 megaton range. Bombs larger than this can be built, but it is far more cost effective in terms of damage to use numerous smaller bombs.

While the threat of terrorist nuclear weapons is real, there are a number of factors that mitigate that threat.

First, while the theoretical physics involved is relatively straightforward, there are significant engineering difficulties involved in construction of a weapon. The shape of the triggerring conventional explosives and the fissile material must be very precise, and the timing of the detonators must be as well. Uranium and plutonium are very difficult substances to work with, both physically and radiologically.

Second, the difficulties involved with construction of a fusion device are even greater. The US and the USSR did extensive testing to perfect their fusion arsenal.

Third, delivery of the weapon is not a trivial exercise. The Hiroshima and Nagasaki weapons were huge in physical size. You can forget the rhetoric about a "suitcase nuke" 'cause it just isn't going to happen.

[Gagool the Old]

That's even assuming the documents are sufficiently detailed enough. Read this and calm down:


http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99991584

{I hope that link works. Funny protocols, this board.}


Meanwhile, I'm very fearful that the warlords have moved back in Afghanistan. Could lead to anarchy. And beware of commanders Dostum and Hekmatyar of the Northern Alliance, for they are treacherous.

[miss_poet]

I'm too lazy to read all the long posts So I will leave it at this:

The first post was inspiring.

I was too lazy to read the others

[Insidious Rex]

hmm 2001. not bad.

[miss_poet]

Actually, I found this before you posted that other thing about 2000 or 2001 or whatever LoL! You are cool!

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by miss_poet
I'm too lazy to read all the long posts So I will leave it at this:

The first post was inspiring.

I was too lazy to read the others

Why are you bringing up these old threads if you aren't reading them or discussing them?

Looks a lot like spamming.

[miss_poet]

That is something I'd expect from you. I will post about it. I am happy that Iraq people are for U.S. What more is there to say? I am glad that at least some of them agree with us...sort of. I hope that they continue to agree. Oh! I saw this show where Kurdish soldiers took some people hostage and then they let them go and they were all crying and it was so happy and it made me cry!

[Sister Golden Hair]

That is something I'd expect from you.

Good, now would you mind answering the question.