Gnomes?

EllethValatari · 01-18-2009, 04:04 PM

I was recently re-reading The Shaping of Middle Earth and came across a charcter that I had no knowledge of existing in Middle Earth. Christopher T. places an exerpt of a writing of Tolkien's; about the Gnomes of the mountains, the sorrow of Ulmo, and their helping him only to die at the hands of Melkor. Are these Gnomes just an idea of Tokien's left out of his great masterpieces? Or are they mentioned elsewhere and I am just too stupid to notice?

CAB · 01-18-2009, 05:57 PM

Welcome to the Moot, Elleth.

As I recall, Gnomes is simply an earlier version of Noldor. Maybe a resident Tolkien language expert (and that certainly isn't me

) or someone with more knowledge of Tolkien's earlier work could give us a more in-depth answer.

I have noticed before that both words start with the sound "no". I would guess that this is not a coincidence.

The Dread Pirate Roberts · 01-20-2009, 09:30 AM

I don't have the evidence at hand but I think CAB is right. Gnomes were an early word for Elves in Tolkien's writings. They may even predate the idea of the three families, but I'm not sure of that, either.

Gordis · 01-20-2009, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Dread Pirate Roberts

I don't have the evidence at hand but I think CAB is right. Gnomes were an early word for Elves in Tolkien's writings. They may even predate the idea of the three families, but I'm not sure of that, either.

IIRC Gnomes were the word used for only one family of the Elves: those who became the Noldor (as CAB said). Tolkien changed the term after considering the popular meaning of "gnomes" (Garden gnomes etc.)

***Varnafindë*** · 01-20-2009, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordis

IIRC Gnomes were the word used for only one family of the Elves: those who became the Noldor (as CAB said).

That would be right.

Quote:

Tolkien changed the term after considering the popular meaning of "gnomes" (Garden gnomes etc.)

Thank goodness!

***Alcuin*** · 01-20-2009, 02:40 PM

We are Lawn Gnomes!

Gordis · 01-20-2009, 03:41 PM

Sure you are not Lawn Noldor?

Galin · 01-23-2009, 03:40 PM

From Vinyar Tengwar 19 (the following is only a small part of an editorial response, further edited here for brevity by me):

Quote:

'(...) Does the changing of Widris to Nóm as a name for Finrod really indicate a move away from such a connection? On the contrary, the change shows Tolkien making the connection even closer, for Nóm 'Wisdom' is a far more obvious 'pun' than Widris, being instantly evocative of NE gnome, used in the early writings (...) to translate Noldor, the kindred to which Finrod belonged. (...) Nóm must be related to the Elvish bases ÑGOL- 'wise, wisdom, be wise' and ÑGOLOD- 'one of the wise folk, Gnome', as well as NOWO- 'think, form idea, imagine': and Tolkien obviously devised these forms to imply a genetic connection with IE gnó- 'to know', the root which led to Greek gnómé 'intelligence, thought'...'

Editorial response (fragment) to Tom Loback, Vinyar Tengwar 19

So, not the 'other' Gnome in any case

Gordis · 01-23-2009, 04:13 PM

So good to have you here, Galin, with your Vinyar Tengwar and Parma quotes.

Very insightful.

01-18-2009, 04:04 PM	#1
EllethValatari Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: United States Posts: 401	Gnomes? I was recently re-reading The Shaping of Middle Earth and came across a charcter that I had no knowledge of existing in Middle Earth. Christopher T. places an exerpt of a writing of Tolkien's; about the Gnomes of the mountains, the sorrow of Ulmo, and their helping him only to die at the hands of Melkor. Are these Gnomes just an idea of Tokien's left out of his great masterpieces? Or are they mentioned elsewhere and I am just too stupid to notice? __________________ Elleth Valatari "We have come from God, and inevitably the myths woven by us, though they contain error, will also reflect a splintered fragment of the true light, the eternal truth that is with God. Our myths may be misguided, but they steer however shakily towards the true harbour, while materialistic 'progress' leads only to a yawning abyss and the Iron Crown of the power of evil." — J.R.R. Tolkien

01-20-2009, 09:30 AM	#3
The Dread Pirate Roberts Elf Lord Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 987	I don't have the evidence at hand but I think CAB is right. Gnomes were an early word for Elves in Tolkien's writings. They may even predate the idea of the three families, but I'm not sure of that, either. __________________ ~The DPR "Good work. Sleep well. I'll most likely kill you in the morning."

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01-18-2009, 05:57 PM	#2
CAB Elven Warrior Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 306	Welcome to the Moot, Elleth. As I recall, Gnomes is simply an earlier version of Noldor. Maybe a resident Tolkien language expert (and that certainly isn't me ) or someone with more knowledge of Tolkien's earlier work could give us a more in-depth answer. I have noticed before that both words start with the sound "no". I would guess that this is not a coincidence.

01-20-2009, 02:40 PM	#6
*Alcuin* Salt Miner Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: gone to Far Harad Posts: 987	We are Lawn Gnomes!

01-20-2009, 03:41 PM	#7
Gordis Lady of the Ulairi Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Minas Morgul Posts: 2,783	Sure you are not Lawn Noldor?

01-23-2009, 04:13 PM	#9
Gordis Lady of the Ulairi Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Minas Morgul Posts: 2,783	So good to have you here, Galin, with your Vinyar Tengwar and Parma quotes. Very insightful.