Turin/Torino Olympics 2006!

[Curubethion]

Okay, this is the one thread for all of your Olympics discussion. My first thought: that ski-jumper that they had all of the people make in the Opening Ceremony was really, really cool.

[Meriadoc Brandybuck]

The Opening Ceremony had a guy who called himself the "Lord of the Ring". Nice.

[trolls' bane]

Originally Posted by Curubethion

Okay, this is the one thread for all of your Olympics discussion. My first thought: that ski-jumper that they had all of the people make in the Opening Ceremony was really, really cool.

Oh no. Is it that time of year already!? I was just getting over the tortures of Football season.

[Nurvingiel]

Originally Posted by trolls' bane

Oh no. Is it that time of year already!? I was just getting over the tortures of Football season.

Then my friend, I believe this comic is for you: Penny Arcade.

I have mixed feelings about the Olympics. I mean, us Vancouverites are hosting the next Winter Olympics (2010) and I want them to go well in Torino and for us. I love sports, and I love watching sports. The Olympics are exciting because we get to see world class amateur athletes play in an extremely challenging competition.
Best of all, I get to watch women's hockey.

BUT. I'm not going to let this ruin the sports for me, but this is a bit "but" (and I cannot lie). The Olympics are corrupt. They have become exceedingly commercial within the last 20 years. The organisation has taken on a life of its own, and it is no longer solely about the athletes.

Corruption though, is the real problem. Beijing has been awarded the 2008 Olympics, and so far, 400'000 citizens of Beijing have been displaced to make room for Olympic facilities. A non-corrupt Olympics committee never would have given the Chinese government (distinction made because I have no problem with China as a country) the Olympics.

Only my deep love of sport keeps me from being thouroughlly disgusted with the whole affair. But let's look at the sports. Why are some sports in the Olympics and others not? Only a few sports like the pentathalon and track and field aren't arbitrary. It makes sense to include sports like swimming and cycling and hey, I see soccer is in there too. But why isn't rugby an Olympic sport? Because it already has a world-wide competition? So does soccer.

Why is men's hockey the only sport that allows professional athletes in the Olympics? This wreaks havoc on the NHL season once every four years, not that I have any sympathy. (I love hockey, but a few things not related to actual hockey playing tick me off.) Men's hockey already has a world-wide amateur competition, the World Junior Hockey Championships, so why is it in the Olympics?

I'm not saying these sports don't deserve to be in the Olympics, but I am saying, why these sports and not others? I can give one reason: marketing. While soccer (Olympic sport) and rugby (not) are both not "good" televised sports (not enough time for ad breaks), soccer will draw millions of viewers, and rugby will not.

edit: Did anyone else think Turin Turambar?

[trolls' bane]

LOL!

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

edit: Did anyone else think Turin Turambar?

Of course I did!

[Spock]

I'm a bit put off by Michelle Kwan. She wasn't up to the trials, then goes and gets a medical bye and now says she isn't feeling 100% and may not compete. After five world championships, she should have just stayed home. It's sad the competitiveness drives logic out of the mind. She should have stayed home and gotten totally better. Of course, I love to see her skate though

[trolls' bane]

Originally Posted by Spock

I'm a bit put off by Michelle Kwan. She wasn't up to the trials, then goes and gets a medical bye and now says she isn't feeling 100% and may not compete. After five world championships, she should have just stayed home. It's sad the competitiveness drives logic out of the mind. She should have stayed home and gotten totally better. Of course, I love to see her skate though

Who?

[Spock]

Michelle Kwan Biography

After a disappointing finish at the 2005 World Figure Skating Championships, Michelle Kwan is looking towards the 2006 Winter Olympics.
Although Michelle Kwan has won five world titles, she has yet to win an Olympic gold medal. She finished third at the 2002 Winter Olympics behind Irina Slutskaya and fellow American, Sarah Hughes, who won the gold. She had a disappointing performance at the 2005 World Figure Skating Championships in Moscow, Russia, where she finished fourth. Michelle Kwan's next major competition will be the 2006 Winter Olympics.

[trolls' bane]

Originally Posted by Spock

Michelle Kwan Biography

After a disappointing finish at the 2005 World Figure Skating Championships, Michelle Kwan is looking towards the 2006 Winter Olympics.
Although Michelle Kwan has won five world titles, she has yet to win an Olympic gold medal. She finished third at the 2002 Winter Olympics behind Irina Slutskaya and fellow American, Sarah Hughes, who won the gold. She had a disappointing performance at the 2005 World Figure Skating Championships in Moscow, Russia, where she finished fourth. Michelle Kwan's next major competition will be the 2006 Winter Olympics.

Oh, thank you.

[Hasty Ent]

Kwan's officially withdrawn. Guess that dream of an Olympic gold is over for her.

I love the Olympics, and watch every event except for hockey (I loathe team sports). Even with all the corruption and scandal, the sentiment behind the event is wonderful: athletes from all over the world competing and aspiring to new heights. Strangely enough, the Summer Games don't appeal to me as much as the winter. Probably because I love winter in general, and mostly just suffer through summer.

nitpick: I was upset that the "figures" element was dropped from figure skating years ago. Seems to me that was an important and critical standard to judge skaters by, although it doesn't make for good tv, I suppose.

[katya]

I didn`t get the cows at all. It was one of the most peculiar things I`d seen in a while. I liked the skier thing they did with all the people though. Yeah, I only watched the opening ceremonies. The only event I saw was a highlight of the ski thing and the only two I saw were the Japanese ones, Uemura Aiko and the other one. And yeah, I thought of Turin as soon as I figured out that Torino was the same thing as Turin. At first I just thought of "Bird Olympics". ???

[Spock]

Originally Posted by Hasty Ent

Kwan's officially withdrawn. Guess that dream of an Olympic gold is over for her.
nitpick: I was upset that the "figures" element was dropped from figure skating years ago. uppose.

Thanks for the info, I checked it out as soon as I signed on. I too miss the 'figures' but did watch the couples for a bit. There are some awesome pairs on this ice this time around.

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by Curubethion

Okay, this is the one thread for all of your Olympics discussion. My first thought: that ski-jumper that they had all of the people make in the Opening Ceremony was really, really cool.

Indeed, I particulary liked the little clouds of breath.

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

Corruption though, is the real problem. Beijing has been awarded the 2008 Olympics, and so far, 400'000 citizens of Beijing have been displaced to make room for Olympic facilities. A non-corrupt Olympics committee never would have given the Chinese government (distinction made because I have no problem with China as a country) the Olympics.

During the Olympics in Atlanta, there were several mentions that many of the homeless people had been given a ticket to another city for the duration of the Games. (I remember somebody saying they had the choice between that ticket or wearing a cap with the logo of the sponsors of the Games, but that's most likely an urban legend, at least I hope it is.) And before the Olympics in Greece, environmental agencies and the Greek Olympic Committee had a tif for almost four years because the Committee wanted adapt an environmental valuable lake for several of the Olympics matches. No, I don't think there will ever be a totally 'clean' Olympic Game.

I don't think the Olympics Commitee is corrupt for chosing Beijing, they have to award the next Olympics to a city that can hold them, that has the right sort of stadiums (or intends to build them), space for an Olympic village and enough requirements to house and transport the huge number of people that come to the Olympics, ect... Having enough cash to pull the games off, is of course another necesity.

The Olympics are supposed to be global. It would be unfair to refuse to give the next Games to a land or city on political grounds. Nor do I think one can hold the Olympics Committee responsible on how the awarded country ends up organising the Games. I doubt the Chinese Olympic Committee put into its application that they were going to relocate a few hundred thousand people. At least, again, I hope they didn't.

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

I'm not saying these sports don't deserve to be in the Olympics, but I am saying, why these sports and not others? I can give one reason: marketing. While soccer (Olympic sport) and rugby (not) are both not "good" televised sports (not enough time for ad breaks), soccer will draw millions of viewers, and rugby will not.

I agree with you on this. If the argument to hold certain sports out of the Olympics on the ground that they have large enough competitions outside the Olympics, why is tennis still an olympic sport?

And I wonder, just how many countries actually practise biathlon? I just can't see it as a wide-spread sport. There seem to be some rather obscure sports, especially in the Winter Olympics.

(Or maybe I'm just sore that after all these years cyclocross still isn't an Olympic sport while some of the best cyclocrossers (including the many times world champion) are Belgian. )

[Jonathan]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

The Olympics are supposed to be global. It would be unfair to refuse to give the next Games to a land or city on political grounds.

I agree it would be unfair. However it has happened once. The Olympic committee forced Tokyo to give up the 1940 Olympics because of the Japanese war in China. (The games were given to Helsinki but was later cancelled because of World War 2).

If a country has a problem with the politics of the hosting country, they can do what Jimmy Carter did and just boycot the games. There was no American athletes in Moscow 1980 (and as a result, the Soviet team refused to participate in the 1984 games in Los Angeles).

Personally I think China is the perfect host of the Olympics. They have almost unlimited money to spend on the games and they've started preparing really early. China is also likely to be the country to grab the highest number of medals and I'm just dying to see their opening ceremony - a ceremony with an Asian touch.

[Nurvingiel]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

During the Olympics in Atlanta, there were several mentions that many of the homeless people had been given a ticket to another city for the duration of the Games. (I remember somebody saying they had the choice between that ticket or wearing a cap with the logo of the sponsors of the Games, but that's most likely an urban legend, at least I hope it is.) And before the Olympics in Greece, environmental agencies and the Greek Olympic Committee had a tif for almost four years because the Committee wanted adapt an environmental valuable lake for several of the Olympics matches. No, I don't think there will ever be a totally 'clean' Olympic Game.

I agree, there probably won't ever be a clean Olympic Games, for the reasons I already mentioned.

Vancouver is already gentrifying the downtown, and I think a lot of homeless people will be displaced. In my own city! This is another reason I don't like the Olympics. I don't want to see Vancouver become a fake city with a huge debt that mistreats homeless people.

If the Olympics really were all about sports, it wouldn't really matter if homeless people asked the visitors for change, or if they went for a walk downtown and got to Hastings street and found it wasn't pretty and shiny like the rest of downtown.

But the Olympics has this ridiculous image it feels it must maintain. Their image must help them with marketing and making ridiculous amounts of money.

Originally Posted by Eärniel

I don't think the Olympics Commitee is corrupt for chosing Beijing, they have to award the next Olympics to a city that can hold them, that has the right sort of stadiums (or intends to build them), space for an Olympic village and enough requirements to house and transport the huge number of people that come to the Olympics, ect... Having enough cash to pull the games off, is of course another necesity.

The Olympics are supposed to be global. It would be unfair to refuse to give the next Games to a land or city on political grounds. Nor do I think one can hold the Olympics Committee responsible on how the awarded country ends up organising the Games. I doubt the Chinese Olympic Committee put into its application that they were going to relocate a few hundred thousand people. At least, again, I hope they didn't.[/quote]If they didn't, and they probably didn't, I wonder where they said they were going to put the Olympic facilities then?
Beijing Olympic Committee: The swimming pool, ski jump, and arena will all go here.
IOC: All next to that large neighbourhood of lower-income families? Are you sure there's enough room there?
Beijing: Yes... next to it. *shifty eyes*

I don't think it would be unfair to deny a country's bid because they don't treat their citizens fairly. The Chinese government has a bad human rights record, and giving the Olympics gives them power and even more reasons to mistreat their citizens. I really don't think corrupt governments like China should be rewarded with the Olympics, but then again in a lot of ways, they exemplify what the Olympics stand for these days.
(I'm not bitter... )

Originally Posted by Eärniel

I agree with you on this. If the argument to hold certain sports out of the Olympics on the ground that they have large enough competitions outside the Olympics, why is tennis still an olympic sport?

I don't understand the logic behind this. I mean, they do keep a lot of events that aren't good on television, marketing-wise. Of course, those are the events that come on at 2am. I remember watching Women's hockey at 2am. I think Canada and the USA have made it a much more prominent Olympic sport. I hope Kazakhstan has a team again, they have so much heart!

Maybe already having a worldwide competition doesn't keep a sport out of the Olympics.

Originally Posted by Eärniel

And I wonder, just how many countries actually practise biathlon? I just can't see it as a wide-spread sport. There seem to be some rather obscure sports, especially in the Winter Olympics.

(Or maybe I'm just sore that after all these years cyclocross still isn't an Olympic sport while some of the best cyclocrossers (including the many times world champion) are Belgian. )

I think Canada, Sweden, Norway, Finland, the USA, and Russia practice biathalon. It isn't actually too obscure of a sport.

What's cyclocross? It probably should join the cycling events in the Olympics.

Originally Posted by Jonathan

Personally I think China is the perfect host of the Olympics. They have almost unlimited money to spend on the games and they've started preparing really early. China is also likely to be the country to grab the highest number of medals and I'm just dying to see their opening ceremony - a ceremony with an Asian touch.

Well, they certainly have their good points. Unlimited money though? Why, because they have gutted other government programs to pay for it? China has a huge economy but they still don't have unlimited resources.
I agree with all the good points you said, but I think 400'000 displaced citizens override the awesome Opening Ceremonies I'm sure they would put on. Just saying.
edit: Their GDP is $7.262 trillion (2004 est.) according to this site. Wow!

edit: I know this thread is about Torino's Olympics, but I kind of took it to be about the Olympics in general.

Beijing's Olympic ambitions push some from homes

Relocation leads to self-immolation in Nanjing

The Loneliness of the Human Rights Defender at the Moment of the Penalty

[Jonathan]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

Well, they certainly have their good points. Unlimited money though? Why, because they have gutted other government programs to pay for it? China has a huge economy but they still don't have unlimited resources.
I agree with all the good points you said, but I think 400'000 displaced citizens override the awesome Opening Ceremonies I'm sure they would put on. Just saying.
edit: Their GDP is $7.262 trillion (2004 est.) according to this site. Wow![/url]

What I'm saying is that (if I remember correctly) the Chinese organizers have a much, much bigger budget than organizers usually do. Their Greek colleagues didn't have nearly as much money to spend. The Chinese organizers can pretty much do whatever they want since money is not a problem.

The displacing of citizens in Beijing sure look bad in the eyes of the rest of the world. Of course people would still be displaced in China even if they didn't host the Olympics. Just think about the millions of people who have had to leave their homes because of that great dam they've been building.

To get back to the Winter Olympics - I put some money on Canada to win the men's ice hockey, but I sure hope with all my heart that Sweden will win

[Nurvingiel]

Originally Posted by Jonathan

What I'm saying is that (if I remember correctly) the Chinese organizers have a much, much bigger budget than organizers usually do. Their Greek colleagues didn't have nearly as much money to spend. The Chinese organizers can pretty much do whatever they want since money is not a problem.

Good point about the Chinese budget.

Originally Posted by Jonathan

The displacing of citizens in Beijing sure look bad in the eyes of the rest of the world. Of course people would still be displaced in China even if they didn't host the Olympics. Just think about the millions of people who have had to leave their homes because of that great dam they've been building.

Yes, people being displaced for any reason is terrible. I don't know how many people the Three Rivers (IIRC) dam displaced, but it was at least as many people as the Olympics.

I'm frustrated with the Olympics in China because since the people were displaced for Olympic facilities, it's like the Olympics condones or at least turns a blind eye to this.

Millions of people are displaced every day, many in Africa. I think that's very sad too. It's a shame that the Olympics, an event that supposed to promote international understanding, is contributing to this world wide human rights problem.

Originally Posted by Jonathan

To get back to the Winter Olympics - I put some money on Canada to win the men's ice hockey, but I sure hope with all my heart that Sweden will win

If it's any consolation, I want you guys to get silver. And Finland bronze.

I really want to see some women's hockey games. Does anyone know when they'll be on?

(I know, Google is my friend.)

[Falagar]

On a side note, we got our first gold medal yesterday! Go Bystølen. And Estil managed a silver in skiathlom even though he broke his skis at the outset.

...not that this matters much to anybody else.

[Spock]

My problem with accepting China's Olympic nod goes to the heart of human rights. Christians have been killed, beaten and arrested; mostly in that order. Tibet is being destroyed in the same way. They now forbid Yahoo & Google from allowing searches to return any information onTinn. Sq., Tibet, human rights, etc. etc, and these search engines have AGREED to prohibit them. Yahoo has TWICE supplied Chinese Intell. with names of people who searched forbidden subjects and one is doing 8 yrs in jai because of that. The list goes on and on, yet the O.C. does nothing.

[HOBBIT]

Poor Michelle Kwan - its weird how 25 is considered old for figure skaters. She does have FIVE World Champion titles - a Silver at 1998 Games in Japan and a Bronze at 2002 games in Salt Lake City.

So she just never gets the Gold.

Sarah Hughes isn't competing at this olympics - 2002 Gold figure skater - went to college. Tara Lipinski 1998 Gold winner stopped too.

My money iis on Saha Cohen this year