Adoption

[Bombadillo]

This is an issue that's been touched upon in threads on abortion and I'm sure all forms of theology threads and threads about charity and whatnot, but no one's addressed it specifically yet.

I would rather adopt than concieve. This view is wierd apparently, but I don't know why.

1 - Why is it that people think they need to have their "own?" They'll love them more? It's just different? How is it different, then, if words can describe it? Is it anything more than being able to say "finally, after nine months!"? Really, I'm at a loss with this one. It seems irrational to me. IMO I'd rather save a life than pull a new one into this world full of castaway souls. Maybe it's that very depressing thought that deters people from considering adoption; they can't even bear to think about it?

2 - Anyway, what are your own personal views? Know anyone who's adopted? Are you, or your kids? How do you think that affects your family?

3 - Would/did you tell your kids that they're adopted? Me, I don't see why not.

4 - Now, if someone is pregnant unexpectedly, they immediately think of abortion and often don't even consider adoption at all. Why do you think that is and what are your thoughts on it?

[inked]

B,

I have encountered your first statement's attitude. I think that has to do with the conception (pun! ) that children are property and "mine".
To that I would oppose the concept that children are "gifts from the Lord" and not property. Thus, any child becomes "your" child by the intent of love and acceptance in adoption.

My daughter is adopted. She is the youngest of my three children and her brothers are biologically mine. There is no difference. NONE. Nada. Zero. She is just as loved and just as infuriating and just as loveable as your typical 15 yo female can be. (By the by, insanity is hereditary; you get it from your teenagers! )

My daughter knows and has always known since she could understand what it meant, I suppose, that she was adopted. We celebrate her country of origin (Chile) and educate people about that place. We take foods of that origin to school functions and do reports. Her room is decorated with items from there and a picture of her as an infant with her foster Mom, Falides. ETC. (Also, she knows we are all adopted by God as children of faith by His choice and ours - "But to as many as believed on (Christ) to them He gave the power to become the children of God, even to them that believe on His Name"-John 1:12; and, Galatians 4:4 to 7 - "But when the fulness of time was come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, made under the Law, to redeem them that were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying, 'Abba', 'Father'. Wherefore, thou art no more a servant, but a son: and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ."

So, adoption is a very powerful reality in our familial experience. We are all adopted!

As to why people choose abortion over adoption. The most common answer in my professional experience of 25+ years is convenience. They do not wish to be "burdened" with a child; they "haven't finished school"; they "didn't mean to get pregnant" (but weren't contracepting at all in 99% of cases); "the time's not right"; "I want children, but not now"; and, "my (parents) (boyfriend) (situation) is making me get an abortion" - are among the rationales I frequently hear.

One reason I believe is that society has withdrawn support for adoption. And as member of an adoption agency board for many years, I have some experience and insight into that. If you'll bear a bit of history...in the 1950's there were many homes for "unwed mothers" who provided safe havens for care of the pregnant women and delivery of the infants. The mothers could place their child for adoption and leave the infant(s) in care for that. Agencies provided the contact for potential adoptive parents and assessments of suitability. Thus, the cultural milieu supported the pregnant unwed mother and assisted her in child placement. There were so many babies available that radio advertisements for adoptive partents were common! And most of these infants were adopted. Some did remain in foundling homes or orphanages if there were not enough adoptive families, and some were placed in foster homes.

When abortion was legalized in Roe vs Wade by Supreme Court fiat and in opposition to virtually all states' regulations, the number of infants placed for adoption went markedly down. Also, there was a manufacturing of the myth in the culture that such young mothers could keep their infants and succeed in finishing school and move to productive careers - indeed the phenomenon was amazing. Suddenly, the unwed mother was "expected" to keep her infant rather than place it for adoption (assuming she didn't abort in the first instance.) So the societal support for adoption largely crumbled and many of the institutional manifestations of that care closed their doors.

Subsequently, it became more and more difficult to locate and place unwed mothers into such facilities if they so desired. The numbers of infants available for adoption declined dramatically. The average wait for a healthy caucasian infant is about 7 years now for couples desiring to adopt. There are more black infants available. Inter-racial adoption became very popular for a while until the concern over maintenance of heritage was pushed by racial activists to the point that the practice became discouraged (not insurmountable, but discouraged).

The agency on whose Board I served had begun the care and service of infants with disabiliites and/or medical conditions and/or AIDS. AND THERE WERE PEOPLE WHO ADOPTED THOSE CHILDREN! In fact, this particular agency was a leader in this type of care and adoption procedure. It also continued to place healthy children, but these numbers were abysmally low during the years I was on the Board.

Then, because the numbers of available infants was so low and so compromised by political considerations of various racial groups, the trend became common for potential adoptive parents with the resources to contact OB/GYNs directly with letters from themselves and their lawyers to locate adoptable infants. These could tear your heart out. And I continue to receive them from time to time, but not on a weekly basis as I did in the late 80's and 90's. There simply weren't enough adoptable infants. I personally have never had that occur in my 18 years of private practice.

That was the reason I chose to do an international adoption, by the way. I had the resources to do that and not deprive another American couple from adopting who may not have been able to afford the international expenses. Also, children in the internationally available legitimate adoption sources are in need of families and care. So, I have a beautiful daughter!

[E, LoR]

I'm adopted it never really changed anything, I knew i was adopted from like, the second I could understand what it meant. my friends treat me the same and everything, they don't ask questions or anything.

[Spock]

This topic, like some others, has the potential to get too personal and out of hand.

Please try to remember this when adding your comments. Inked and I, Lor have done a wonderful start, let's not let them down.

[E, LoR]

Originally Posted by Spock

This topic, like some others, has the potential to get too personal and out of hand.

Please try to remember this when adding your comments. Inked and I, Lor have done a wonderful start, let's not let them down.

thanks

[The Gaffer]

Interesting topic, great post by Inked!

I would start by applauding your instincts, Bombadillo.

I know lots of adopted people, all of whom would swear that it didn't make any difference to them. Glad that you are amongst them, Eowyn.

I also know lots of people who have adopted, some of whom I've followed through the process, none of whom have found it easy.

From my own experience, having witnessed two births, I felt that a switch was flicked inside my head. Suddenly there was a capacity (for lots of things: love, patience, dealing with stuff, responsibility, etc etc, but mostly love) which I didn't have or wasn't aware of before. It was a staggering experience. I guess it's the thing that would make you throw yourself into a lion's mouth for your kids.

Now, I guess that to open up that capacity may have taken longer with adopted children. I think it would still have happened, but perhaps in a different way.

So, one of the challenges that adoptive parents face is the absence of 9 months to get used to the idea.

A lot depends on the age of the kids too, and what has happened to them. One couple, who adopted two brothers aged 2 and 4, are having a very difficult time because of how they were messed up by their biological parents.

I would say that the older the kids (and the more of them there are!), the harder it is. However, as it would seem in the US, the UK has a shortage of babies and a surfeit of older kids, hence candidate parents are steered in that direction.

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

my gran was adopted, my great gran and great grandad loved her as if they had brought her forth into this world. i myself will never adopt, even though (as a gay man) i can adopt, albeit not as a couple with my partner, but that is simply because i can not stand children

[brownjenkins]

Originally Posted by Bombadillo

1 - Why is it that people think they need to have their "own?" They'll love them more? It's just different? How is it different, then, if words can describe it? Is it anything more than being able to say "finally, after nine months!"? Really, I'm at a loss with this one. It seems irrational to me. IMO I'd rather save a life than pull a new one into this world full of castaway souls. Maybe it's that very depressing thought that deters people from considering adoption; they can't even bear to think about it?

i agree... i have kids, but i've also worked with kids a lot throughout my life... close bonds are something you make, not something you are born with, and it doesn't matter one bit what the bloodline is, unless you choose to let it

Originally Posted by Bombadillo

2 - Anyway, what are your own personal views? Know anyone who's adopted? Are you, or your kids? How do you think that affects your family?

i think adoption, much like children from divorces or other "out of the ordinary" situations are becoming more accepted over time because people are more familiar with the idea... i only expect that acceptance to increase over time

Originally Posted by Bombadillo

3 - Would/did you tell your kids that they're adopted? Me, I don't see why not.

absolutely! i'm pretty straight forward with my kids about all issues from a very young age... issues much more sensitive than adoption, so i'm certain i'd let the child know

Originally Posted by Bombadillo

4 - Now, if someone is pregnant unexpectedly, they immediately think of abortion and often don't even consider adoption at all. Why do you think that is and what are your thoughts on it?

i think, in comparison, abortion is easy and adoption is hard... nine months of pregnancy is not the easiest task for a young woman... more support for young mothers during their pregnancies might do a lot to change this... something like a modern-day home for unwed mothers like inked mentioned

[E, LoR]

Originally Posted by Last Child of Ungoliant

my gran was adopted, my great gran and great grandad loved her as if they had brought her forth into this world

thats really cool! as far as I know - im the only one in my family who's adopted, besides my sister.

[Bombadillo]

It's good to know people are interested, and involved!

I met someone who was adopted at a big family reunion last year. But it was a big party, and I don't remember her relation to me. Dad's great uncle's niece or something. Anyway it isn't big in my family.

The first time I met an adopted kid was on a trip to Europe as a student ambassador. Other kids actually asked him if being adopted made him feel unloved or unwanted. I couldn't figure out why that would even entire their minds, much less actually be said, to him at that. He didn't take offense anyway. But I think that a big reason people don't adopt is because they expect it to be traumatic for the kid to find out, like a kid would actually care if his mommy said to him "I didn't give birth to you." But kids don't think of their mommies as the female who gave birth to them, so I think that's just ridiculous.

Inked, your historic post was easy to bear.

I forgot to ask about whether or not you'd adopt a racially different or developmentally challanged baby, until you mentioned it Inked. For some reason, I'm compelled to say I'd want a white baby, but that doesn't make any more sense than wanting one of your "own," so I probably wouldn't care once I'd given it serious thought. As for mental challenges, I'm not a saint. Anyone who takes on a handicapped child on purpose should be. If possible, I'd even try to secure a list of medical conditions that run in my adopted child's family, so I know what he's at risk for. And I'm saying "he" habitually but I could never decide whether I'd rather raise a boy or girl.

[E, LoR]

Originally Posted by Bombadillo

The first time I met an adopted kid was on a trip to Europe as a student ambassador. Other kids actually asked him if being adopted made him feel unloved or unwanted. I couldn't figure out why that would even entire their minds, much less actually be said, to him at that. He didn't take offense anyway.

I don't see why being adopted would make someone feel unloved or unwanted. Just because their parents are the one's that gave birth to them doesn't mean that the parents who did don't love them. Perhaps it means that they couldn't support them financially (my case), or that they died, or something.

[Spock]

To go through all the trouble and time it takes to adopt in the US certainly conveys a love of the child being adopted to my mind.

[Farimir Captain of Gondor]

Originally Posted by Bombadillo

1 - Why is it that people think they need to have their "own?" They'll love them more? It's just different? How is it different, then, if words can describe it? Is it anything more than being able to say "finally, after nine months!"? Really, I'm at a loss with this one. It seems irrational to me. IMO I'd rather save a life than pull a new one into this world full of castaway souls. Maybe it's that very depressing thought that deters people from considering adoption; they can't even bear to think about it?

IMO, and people who believe in the creation theory don't bite my head off, this a primal urge that , like any other creature on Earth, tells them they NEED to reproduce. When in a "prethinking" time the reprodution of the species was necessary for survival, and even though we can now decide if we want to or not there is still something inside telling us we have to do it.

2 - Anyway, what are your own personal views? Know anyone who's adopted? Are you, or your kids? How do you think that affects your family?

I feel adoption is a great thing. It gives people who other wise couldn't have a family a chance to have one. I grew up in the military and moved alot and I had to make new friends about every 4 years. When i was 11 i met an asian boy and we quikly became friends. I had no idea he was adopted untill i went to his home for diner one night, after knowing him for about two weeks, and realized his parents were white. This didn't change our friendship at all but did bring up alot of questions. He had no problem talking about it and he answered everything i asked. He was the only child in the family so i don't know what effects it would have had if he had siblings who were biological to the parents.

3 - Would/did you tell your kids that they're adopted? Me, I don't see why not.

Definitly. The question is at what age is it, i don't want to say "the right age" but can't think of a better phrase, to tell them?

4 - Now, if someone is pregnant unexpectedly, they immediately think of abortion and often don't even consider adoption at all. Why do you think that is and what are your thoughts on it?

With this it could be alot of things. The mother may be a teenager and doesn't know what to do and instead of thinking it out, she panics. Her religious beliefs might also play a part. In some religous organizations it's a sin to be pregnant before marriage and the women feers the reaction of her church. (please religious people, don't bite my head off) I myself am pro-choice but thats a different topic and i don't want to start a debate on that and take away from your excellent topic.

[Bombadillo]

Originally Posted by Farimir Captain of Gondor

IMO, and people who believe in the creation theory don't bite my head off, this a primal urge that , like any other creature on Earth, tells them they NEED to reproduce. When in a "prethinking" time the reprodution of the species was necessary for survival, and even though we can now decide if we want to or not there is still something inside telling us we have to do it.

Hey, relax, man. (I read your signature.) If anyone bites your head off, well that's just silly of them.

Now that you say it, it seems obvious to me, like I used to know that. What still upsets me is how people talk about children as being such a big decision that requires so much thought. It's one of the things that people think about as hard and as thouroughly as they can, you know, big decision, big deal. And yet during all that thought the possibility of adoption never occurs to them. Some people even go to the extremes to try to concieve, like sperm banks, herbs, or yoga-esque superstition. My own godparents did that to get my two little cousins, come to think of it. Sold their house to pay for them.

Now I'm reminded of some things I learned about in my Developmental Psych class. It's sort of related, and I hope I can find some articles online. Anyway, people nowadays are trying to choose the sex of their babies. There were three different methods that doctors can actually use to do this now. And they're also researching gene selection too, so you can choose almost exactly what you want your precious bundle of individuality to be like. Brave New World? Huxley never dreamed this stuff would happen so soon. What other frighteningly specific standards are parents setting for these kids then too? Agh...

[Farimir Captain of Gondor]

Originally Posted by Bombadillo

Now that you say it, it seems obvious to me, like I used to know that. What still upsets me is how people talk about children as being such a big decision that requires so much thought. It's one of the things that people think about as hard and as thouroughly as they can, you know, big decision, big deal. And yet during all that thought the possibility of adoption never occurs to them. Some people even go to the extremes to try to concieve, like sperm banks, herbs, or yoga-esque superstition. My own godparents did that to get my two little cousins, come to think of it. Sold their house to pay for them.

Now I'm reminded of some things I learned about in my Developmental Psych class. It's sort of related, and I hope I can find some articles online. Anyway, people nowadays are trying to choose the sex of their babies. There were three different methods that doctors can actually use to do this now. And they're also researching gene selection too, so you can choose almost exactly what you want your precious bundle of individuality to be like. Brave New World? Huxley never dreamed this stuff would happen so soon. What other frighteningly specific standards are parents setting for these kids then too? Agh...

That always reminds me of the movie with Ethan Hawk in it "Gatica" or something like that where at birth they can tell you how your baby is going to die,when, and even what he/she is going to be when they grow up! It seemed like science fiction at the time but now it could happen in the near future. Funny you should mention Huxley, that just happens to be my last name. . I'm not a close relation to him (like first cousins) but my grandmother has said that our roots trace back to him. Wish some of his intelligence would have inherited in me.

[Bombadillo]

That's awesome! I have a great uncle who's been showing me his research on my geneology, and my past is starting to look more and more boring. Swarms of Polish, German, Finnish, and Irish poor. I'm sure there's plenty of nobility in the other side of the family. For now, I envy you for some reason.

[Farimir Captain of Gondor]

Don't envy me like I said I received none of his intelligence. That and I couldn't write a children's book let alone a novel.