Mithril Question

Curubethion · 12-14-2005, 12:25 AM

I just realized this: if mithril is so strong, how could dwarves shape it? Anyone have theories?

Elanor · 12-14-2005, 12:39 AM

They get it hot.

Radagast The Brown · 12-14-2005, 06:30 PM

From LotR, A Journey in the Dark, page 309 in my book -
"Mithril! All folk desired it. It could be beaten like copper, and polished like glass; and the Dwarves could make of it a metal, light and yet harder than tempered steel."

Lefty Scaevola · 12-14-2005, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radagast The Brown

It could be beaten like copper, and polished like glass; and the Dwarves could make of it a metal, light and yet harder than tempered steel."

Apparently in pure form it was soft and maleable like copper, the hard version was likely some some of alloy, very light so not with iron, but perhaps with titanium or aluminum.

Lotesse · 12-14-2005, 10:02 PM

Lefty!! Haven't seen U in ages.

So, in pure form - for instance, in the veins in the mines of Moria, you could pick it out easily, and then they made it hard by making an alloy out of it? Like it is with pure gold; pure gold is really malleable. It's a subject I have a bit of interest in, being a lover of precious gems & metals. Plus, it'd be good to know for my RPG charater, whenever I get her playing out a Jewelry-making class. I always sort of equated mithril with platinum; is platinum malleable like gold & copper?

Lefty Scaevola · 12-14-2005, 10:49 PM

Yep, platinum is much like silver in it working qualities. I have also wondered if ti was mithril, but know of no superhard alloyls of it, and it is not very lightweight.

Elanor · 12-14-2005, 11:01 PM

It's an undiscovered element!
*wonders what its molecular weight is*

Findegil · 12-16-2005, 08:21 PM

I don't know if any metal is hard when it is realy pure! Maybe Chromium or any other of the high melting elements. But anyway, mithril is reported to be soft by nature. Thus the Dwarves were able to make an alloy of it, wish had very interesting properties.

How they formed it: Maybe they made the forming very slow? Or both hot and slow.

Respectfully
Findegil

me9996 · 12-20-2005, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elanor

It's an undiscovered element!
*wonders what its molecular weight is*

No idea...

me9996 · 09-17-2007, 11:54 PM

In the time scence this topic died I have developed the theory that mithril was aluminum.

Think about it:

1: Aluminum was very rare and worth more than gold before a way of refineing it was made (in the 1800s I think)

2: Mithril was from norse mitholigy and just about all of us here know how legends can be based on truth.

3: Aluminum is very shiney, very strong, doesn't easily corrode, and is also rather light.

I think this is on topic

Lefty Scaevola · 09-24-2007, 04:56 PM

Aluminum is a somewhat reasonable candidate, and does make a strong lightweight alloy (but unfortunately a bit too brittle to be used for armor) with titanium. Perhaps they have some othe element also in the alloy to make it less brittle.

Olmer · 09-25-2007, 03:56 PM

I'm not ” too deep” in a chemistry, but what about an alloy with berillium?
It's a lightest metal, in pure condition is as hard as tempered steel, although it's brittle. But undisclosed components in its alloy allowed to use it in an aerospace industry as a strong, withstanding high temperature, light weight material for manufacturing the launch vehicles for space ships.

On another hand it is highly poisonous…

I think I have an idea what kind of metal they were using in Angmar to make nazgul’s daggers.

Among others “good qualities” of berillium daggers are the ability to break easily, leaving a invisible for x-rays fragments, and make unhealing wounds from which person would slowly waste away.

(Astounded at a suddenly revealed insight) What a metallurgy they used in Arda? Of 21 century?

Nautipus · 09-25-2007, 05:18 PM

It would be crazy if they had a sword made from Iridium 83!

***Earniel*** · 09-25-2007, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nautipus

It would be crazy if they had a sword made from Iridium 83!

It's been done, or rather, written. I've once read a book with such a sword.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olmer

I think I have an idea what kind of metal they were using in Angmar to make nazgul’s daggers.

Among others “good qualities” of berillium daggers are the ability to break easily, leaving a invisible for x-rays fragments, and make an unhealing wounds from which a person would slowly waste away.

Creeeeepy. *makes mental note to keep Olmer away from the Mordor smithies.

Nautipus · 09-25-2007, 06:59 PM

Was it by Lincoln Child and Douglas Preston? Because that's what i was banking off of. I wonder what kind of havok the witch-king could wreak if he had that....of course before he succumbed to radiation poisoning...

***Earniel*** · 09-25-2007, 07:54 PM

Yup.

The Witch-King being rather on the dead side, will probably experience little side-effects from radiations. Although it would be fun if he started to glow from the radiation. Heck, he may even like that, no more being totally invisible.

Nautipus · 09-25-2007, 08:03 PM

"I am Witch-King, see me glow!"

I can see it now. Even if Merry and Eowyn still defeated him, they may die from radiation exposure. That'd be an interesting twist...the place where he fell would always have an outline of his body. hehe
I wonder how many horses and fell beasts he'd need to go through to compensate for their deaths.

Jon S. · 09-25-2007, 10:12 PM

Metallic hydrogen?

Quote:

If metallic hydrogen could be retained metastably on release of pressure, what properties would it have? Metallic hydrogen is speculated to have a number of interesting properties and important applications, if it could be quenched from high pressures to ambient. It is not known how, nor even whether, metallic hydrogen could be quenched to ambient but the potential benefits are enormous if it could be. For this reason it is worth speculating on possible uses of metastable solid metallic hydrogen. ... If solid metallic hydrogen has sufficient strength, it might be useful as a light-weight structural material. For example, automobiles made of metallic hydrogen would be ~10 times lighter than current ones made of steel, enhancing fuel efficiency and reducing conventional fuel emissions. The ideal would be to synthesize metallic hydrogen to be either extremely metastable, as diamond, for use as a structural material ... http://phys.llnl.gov/Organization/HD.../ComQuest.html

Nautipus · 09-25-2007, 10:15 PM

I just have to let everyone know.....I HATE CHEMISTRY!!
That metallic hydrogen thing is cool, now if the dwarves only had a way to.....

12-14-2005, 12:25 AM	#1
Curubethion Fenway Ranger, Lord of Red Sox Nation Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: College! Posts: 1,976	Mithril Question I just realized this: if mithril is so strong, how could dwarves shape it? Anyone have theories? __________________ Adventure...betrayal...heroism... Atharon: where heroes are born. My wife once said to me—when I'd been writing for ten or fifteen years—that I could always go back to being a nuclear engineer. And I said to her, 'Harriet, would you let someone who quit his job to go write fantasy anywhere near your nuclear reactor? I wouldn't!' (Robert Jordan)

12-14-2005, 12:39 AM	#2
Elanor Hobbit in the Music Join Date: Nov 1999 Location: Westmarch Posts: 1,111	They get it hot. __________________ Middle Earth Crossword Puzzle on the Tolkien Site of DOOM Segovia Mazes

12-14-2005, 06:30 PM	#3
Radagast The Brown Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Israel Posts: 6,975	From LotR, A Journey in the Dark, page 309 in my book - "Mithril! All folk desired it. It could be beaten like copper, and polished like glass; and the Dwarves could make of it a metal, light and yet harder than tempered steel." __________________ Lalala... poof! AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

12-14-2005, 10:02 PM	#5
Lotesse of the House of Fëanor Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 6,150	Lefty!! Haven't seen U in ages. So, in pure form - for instance, in the veins in the mines of Moria, you could pick it out easily, and then they made it hard by making an alloy out of it? Like it is with pure gold; pure gold is really malleable. It's a subject I have a bit of interest in, being a lover of precious gems & metals. Plus, it'd be good to know for my RPG charater, whenever I get her playing out a Jewelry-making class. I always sort of equated mithril with platinum; is platinum malleable like gold & copper? __________________ Few people have the imagination for reality. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

12-14-2005, 10:49 PM	#6
Lefty Scaevola AngAdan Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Boerne, Texas Posts: 856	Yep, platinum is much like silver in it working qualities. I have also wondered if ti was mithril, but know of no superhard alloyls of it, and it is not very lightweight. __________________ Gaius Mucius Scaevola Older, richer, and wiser than you "Mighty are the Ainur, and mightiest among them is Melkor, but that he may know, and all the Ainur, that I am Iluvatar, those things that ye have sung, I will show them forth, ... And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me,"

12-14-2005, 11:01 PM	#7
Elanor Hobbit in the Music Join Date: Nov 1999 Location: Westmarch Posts: 1,111	It's an undiscovered element! wonders what its molecular weight is __________________ Middle Earth Crossword Puzzle on the Tolkien Site of DOOM Segovia Mazes

12-16-2005, 08:21 PM	#8
Findegil Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Geilenkirchen, Germany Posts: 192	I don't know if any metal is hard when it is realy pure! Maybe Chromium or any other of the high melting elements. But anyway, mithril is reported to be soft by nature. Thus the Dwarves were able to make an alloy of it, wish had very interesting properties. How they formed it: Maybe they made the forming very slow? Or both hot and slow. Respectfully Findegil

09-24-2007, 04:56 PM	#11
Lefty Scaevola AngAdan Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Boerne, Texas Posts: 856	Aluminum is a somewhat reasonable candidate, and does make a strong lightweight alloy (but unfortunately a bit too brittle to be used for armor) with titanium. Perhaps they have some othe element also in the alloy to make it less brittle. __________________ Gaius Mucius Scaevola Older, richer, and wiser than you "Mighty are the Ainur, and mightiest among them is Melkor, but that he may know, and all the Ainur, that I am Iluvatar, those things that ye have sung, I will show them forth, ... And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me," Last edited by Lefty Scaevola : 09-24-2007 at 04:58 PM.

09-25-2007, 03:56 PM	#12
Olmer Elf Lord Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: LI-woods, NY Posts: 653	I'm not ” too deep” in a chemistry, but what about an alloy with berillium? It's a lightest metal, in pure condition is as hard as tempered steel, although it's brittle. But undisclosed components in its alloy allowed to use it in an aerospace industry as a strong, withstanding high temperature, light weight material for manufacturing the launch vehicles for space ships. On another hand it is highly poisonous… I think I have an idea what kind of metal they were using in Angmar to make nazgul’s daggers. Among others “good qualities” of berillium daggers are the ability to break easily, leaving a invisible for x-rays fragments, and make unhealing wounds from which person would slowly waste away. (Astounded at a suddenly revealed insight) What a metallurgy they used in Arda? Of 21 century? __________________ Uruk-hai, or the journey to there. Last edited by Olmer : 09-25-2007 at 10:52 PM.

09-25-2007, 05:18 PM	#13
Nautipus Kraken King Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Under the sea Posts: 2,714	It would be crazy if they had a sword made from Iridium 83! __________________ Being the King of these Beings, This is my Child One of my top ten favorite movies. "You ever try to flick a fly? "No." "It's a waste of time." "Can you see it?" "No." "It's right there!" "Where? "There!" "What is it?" "A crab." "A crab? I dont see any crab." "How?! It's right there!!" "Where?" "There!!!!" "Oh." -Excerpts from A Tale of Two Morons One of the best Global Warming Messages out there

09-25-2007, 06:59 PM	#15
Nautipus Kraken King Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Under the sea Posts: 2,714	Was it by Lincoln Child and Douglas Preston? Because that's what i was banking off of. I wonder what kind of havok the witch-king could wreak if he had that....of course before he succumbed to radiation poisoning... __________________ Being the King of these Beings, This is my Child One of my top ten favorite movies. "You ever try to flick a fly? "No." "It's a waste of time." "Can you see it?" "No." "It's right there!" "Where? "There!" "What is it?" "A crab." "A crab? I dont see any crab." "How?! It's right there!!" "Where?" "There!!!!" "Oh." -Excerpts from A Tale of Two Morons One of the best Global Warming Messages out there

09-25-2007, 07:54 PM	#16
*Earniel* The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium) Posts: 14,363	Yup. The Witch-King being rather on the dead side, will probably experience little side-effects from radiations. Although it would be fun if he started to glow from the radiation. Heck, he may even like that, no more being totally invisible. __________________ We are not things.

09-25-2007, 08:03 PM	#17
Nautipus Kraken King Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Under the sea Posts: 2,714	"I am Witch-King, see me glow!" I can see it now. Even if Merry and Eowyn still defeated him, they may die from radiation exposure. That'd be an interesting twist...the place where he fell would always have an outline of his body. hehe I wonder how many horses and fell beasts he'd need to go through to compensate for their deaths. __________________ Being the King of these Beings, This is my Child One of my top ten favorite movies. "You ever try to flick a fly? "No." "It's a waste of time." "Can you see it?" "No." "It's right there!" "Where? "There!" "What is it?" "A crab." "A crab? I dont see any crab." "How?! It's right there!!" "Where?" "There!!!!" "Oh." -Excerpts from A Tale of Two Morons One of the best Global Warming Messages out there

09-25-2007, 10:15 PM	#19
Nautipus Kraken King Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Under the sea Posts: 2,714	I just have to let everyone know.....I HATE CHEMISTRY!! That metallic hydrogen thing is cool, now if the dwarves only had a way to..... __________________ Being the King of these Beings, This is my Child One of my top ten favorite movies. "You ever try to flick a fly? "No." "It's a waste of time." "Can you see it?" "No." "It's right there!" "Where? "There!" "What is it?" "A crab." "A crab? I dont see any crab." "How?! It's right there!!" "Where?" "There!!!!" "Oh." -Excerpts from A Tale of Two Morons One of the best Global Warming Messages out there

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