The Lays of Beleriand

[Rían]

I've searched back a bit - I thought there was a thread on this but can't find one within the last 6 months, so here goes.

The Lays of Beleriand - volume 3 in the History of Middle Earth series - contains 2 major works, unfortunately unfinished: The Lay of the Children of Hurin, and The Lay of Leithian. I'm not a big poetry person, but I fell in love with these works! Anyone want to discuss them here?

[Artanis]

Well I for one love those poems too, but it is a long time since I read them now.

[Rían]

To start at the beginning - the bit about the capture of Húrin - Just proves that there are worse things than death I love how Húrin stands up to Morgoth and his cruel, lying taunts. There are few things worse, IMO, than having lies told against your character

Morgoth: "Is it dauntless Húrin stout steel-handed, who stands before me, a captive living as a coward might be?"

This is a lie - Húrin fought courageously at all times; he was only taken alive because it was Morgoth's order.


I like Húrin's response to Morgoth's offer to free him if he turns traitor: "I am no tool for thy evil treasons; torment were sweeter than a traitor's stain."


I also like how Húrin shows the whole truth - Morgoth offers him treasures, and Húrin points out that these treasures he offers were stolen treasures.


And what a terrible thing Morgoth finally did to Húrin - cursed his family, and let Húrin see what happened to them. And I imagine Morgoth "edited" the things Húrin saw, too, just as Sauron "edited" the things Denethor saw.

[Artanis]

Yup, Húrin is The Man of the 1.age! Him standing up against Morgoth even in helpless captivity is one of the greatest moments in the history of Middle Earth.

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

And I imagine Morgoth "edited" the things Húrin saw, too, just as Sauron "edited" the things Denethor saw.

Yes, I imagine so too, and so did Melian:

'Húrin Thalion, Morgoth hath bewitched thee; for he that seeth through Morgoth's eyes, willing or unwilling, seeth all things crooked.

I'd love to contribute more in your HoME threads RÃ*, but I'm too busy these days, and I'm also going on a 3-weeks journey tomorrow. See you later.

[Sister Golden Hair]

I just love the part of the duel between Sauron and Finrod in the Lay of Lethian. It's almost the same as the piece that is provided in the Sil, but it is more detailed and lengthy, with some slight variations. So beautifully written.

The way it describle Thu is almost spooky. The fear that Beren, Finrod, and the rest of the Elves felt, must have been great indeed. The description of the loyalty to Finrod by the Elves and how they willingly died without betrayal, was very moving.

[Rían]

Yes, I love that part, too. Did you catch on with the names spelled backwards right at first? I didn't get it until I read the commentary!

Arty, you travelling lady you! You just went on a nice vacation recently, and you're off again?! You lucky thing Have a great time!

[Elemmírë]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

Yes, I love that part, too. Did you catch on with the names spelled backwards right at first? I didn't get it until I read the commentary!

I didn't see it until I looked at the commentary either.

Yeah, I really love the Lays. I finally made myself sit down (or more like walk around campus) and read the whole Lay of Leithian. Somehow in the past I had simply stopped after Finrod died. And started when Beren went to Nargothrond...

I almost couldn't get through the first two pages. The parallels that I hadn't seen before were painful.

For example... I hadn't quite connected the fact that Beren and Barahir had had ten companions, and the same with Finrod and Beren. That can't be coincidence. And then there's how Beren, "wept not for his heart was ice" and "there Beren lies. His grief no tear". Emotionally stunted... Poor guy.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

Yes, I love that part, too. Did you catch on with the names spelled backwards right at first? I didn't get it until I read the commentary!

Actually Rian, I didn't know anything about the names until you and Artanis were playing that little name game as Nair and Sinatra.

[Rían]

heehee!!

(checks her leg stubble)

[Rían]

bad part of the Lay of the Children of Húrin : the name of the elf that helps Húrin is Flinding go-Fuilin. I just can't get into that name! Oh well, JRRT created thousands of names, I guess he can have a few bad ones.

good part - I like the section when Húrin and the above-named elf (can't bring myself to write it again! ) come before Orodreth's thone and Orodreth is starting to get angry, then Finduilas appears. I like how we hear her before we see her - "a voice of music o'er that vast murmur mounted in melody to the midty domes...". And then she speaks for F. and H. so well, and it quells Orodreth's anger and fear of treachery.

JRRT's descriptions of Finduilas are so light and airy and shimmering - he really does a great job of building a light, airy image and almost a sound of her in my mind.

[Lenya]

I absolutely loved Vol III! I really do need to read it again, its something I can never get tired of. *give out a longing sigh*

Oh RÃ*an, about the other thread you were looking for, is it perhaps Whats your favourite poem/song by Tolkien ?

[Rían]

oh, yes, that's a good thread!

I was never really a poetry person until I read Tolkien. The first several times I read LOTR I skipped over the poems. Then I finally read them and got hooked! Then I found the Lays of Beleriand - wow!

[Lenya]

I wasn't really a poetry fan either. And I'm actually still not, though Vol. III is an exception. And I don't think I ever skipped one of the poems