Death in Middle Earth

Beor · 04-02-2005, 11:53 PM

So I was sitting on the couch, and I wondered to myself, "so what exactly does happen to men when they die?" Then I thought, "referring, of course, to JRR Tolkien's mythology". He never states it (probably because he didnt know where they really went anyway, or he didnt have it fleshed out enough to write it down), all he really says about it (that I have read) is that "the elves know not where they go", or something like that. I think it states in Morgoths Ring somewhere, that they are supposed to go somewhere and set up an Arda-Unmarred or something, but I am not sure. Any thoughts?

Oh, and I am shivering like a hot dog.

Telcontar_Dunedain · 04-03-2005, 06:51 AM

I think it would be the same kind of thing that Christians believe happen when you die. That they will go to 'heaven' and be with Eru.

Gordis · 04-03-2005, 05:07 PM

They go at first to the Halls of Mandos, but only briefly, and then beyond...

CrazySquirrel · 04-07-2005, 12:02 PM

But will there be a jugement and retribution?

Gordis · 04-07-2005, 02:59 PM

Actually I don't know. Perhaps in Mandos? But has Mandos the right to withhold the Gift from evil men?

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 04-07-2005, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gordis

Actually I don't know. Perhaps in Mandos? But has Mandos the right to withhold the Gift from evil men?

None of the Valar had the power to withhold death from Men. It was their nature and the Gift of Iluvatar. Only Iluvatar could do that.

Gordis · 04-07-2005, 05:52 PM

I meant not the death itself, but the right to go beyond. Perhaps the evil ones were obliged to stay in the Halls of Mandos not briefly but much longer and suffer somehow.
Has Tolkien explained this somewhere?

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 04-07-2005, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gordis

I meant not the death itself, but the right to go beyond. Perhaps the evil ones were obliged to stay in the Halls of Mandos not briefly but much longer and suffer somehow.
Has Tolkien explained this somewhere?

With 12 volumes of the HoMe, I'm sure there is something in there about it. I'll try to see what I can find.

Lenya · 06-17-2005, 04:39 PM

As far as I understood Tolkien, humans also go to the halls of Mandos for waiting. Only, unlike the Elves, at the end of time/the world (?) they will 'go beyond' and live an iternal life with Eru. The question I'm asking is what happens to the Elves? And does the good and bad Elves stay for ever in the halls of Mandos? Or are the good ones granted a better fate?

04-02-2005, 11:53 PM	#1
Beor founder of the color blue Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: E-Space Posts: 1,727	Death in Middle Earth So I was sitting on the couch, and I wondered to myself, "so what exactly does happen to men when they die?" Then I thought, "referring, of course, to JRR Tolkien's mythology". He never states it (probably because he didnt know where they really went anyway, or he didnt have it fleshed out enough to write it down), all he really says about it (that I have read) is that "the elves know not where they go", or something like that. I think it states in Morgoths Ring somewhere, that they are supposed to go somewhere and set up an Arda-Unmarred or something, but I am not sure. Any thoughts? Oh, and I am shivering like a hot dog. __________________ Well, there it is.

04-03-2005, 06:51 AM	#2
Telcontar_Dunedain Warrior of the House of Hador Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 4,651	I think it would be the same kind of thing that Christians believe happen when you die. That they will go to 'heaven' and be with Eru. __________________ Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230

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04-03-2005, 05:07 PM	#3
Gordis Lady of the Ulairi Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Minas Morgul Posts: 2,783	They go at first to the Halls of Mandos, but only briefly, and then beyond...

04-07-2005, 12:02 PM	#4
CrazySquirrel Shape-shifting, men-grabbing NAZGUL Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Mirkwood Posts: 796	But will there be a jugement and retribution?

04-07-2005, 02:59 PM	#5
Gordis Lady of the Ulairi Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Minas Morgul Posts: 2,783	Actually I don't know. Perhaps in Mandos? But has Mandos the right to withhold the Gift from evil men?

04-07-2005, 05:52 PM	#7
Gordis Lady of the Ulairi Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Minas Morgul Posts: 2,783	I meant not the death itself, but the right to go beyond. Perhaps the evil ones were obliged to stay in the Halls of Mandos not briefly but much longer and suffer somehow. Has Tolkien explained this somewhere?

06-17-2005, 04:39 PM	#9
Lenya Elentári Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: South Africa Posts: 727	As far as I understood Tolkien, humans also go to the halls of Mandos for waiting. Only, unlike the Elves, at the end of time/the world (?) they will 'go beyond' and live an iternal life with Eru. The question I'm asking is what happens to the Elves? And does the good and bad Elves stay for ever in the halls of Mandos? Or are the good ones granted a better fate?