Churchill

[jerseydevil]

I'm hoping some people will tear themselves away from talking about the US and religion and start to post about something else. As I said in the presidential thread - I was going to get a book on Churchill. I thought it would be good to discuss him. I hope sun-star will discuss something as well as others.

I just finished the first two chapters which covered his school years. His parents were very distant. He wasn't very good in school, he often seems to have gotten in trouble and he always needed money. I just find it so hard that he would have to beg for his parents to come see him while he was in school - or beg them to stay home for the holidays. I also found his letters he wrote when he was 8 years old to be sort of strange. I know that "kids" were considered adults in miniture back then - but it's still so hard to picture an 8 year old to write the kind of letters he was writing at that age.

What are your thoughts on Churchill?


BTW - it took him three times to pass the army exam.

[Count Comfect]

I just finished his "My Early Life" with particular emphasis on his military service: it's amazing how well connected he was. He managed to get placement in every single major war or engagement from India through the Boer wars through his family friends. Not that I blame him, anyone who could have would have done what he did. I just found it interesting.

And he really is a good writer.

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Count Comfect

I just finished his "My Early Life" with particular emphasis on his military service:

I'm reading Churchill: A Life by Martin Gilbert. It's about 1,000 pages and seemed to have good reviews. I want to see what it says about World I and World II - including his ideas in post war Europe.

[The Gaffer]

Roy Jenkins' biography of Churchill got pretty good reviews too.

He was one of the greatest war leaders this country has ever produced. He was recently voted Greatest Briton Ever in one of those ridiculous polls.

Some trivial facts about Churchill: he suggested using chemical weapons against rebellious tribes in Iraq; during WW2, he spent more time OUT of the country than in it (the country was effectively run by Attlee); he claimed to have ten ideas every day, of which only one was any good, and he never could tell which one.

[sun-star]

Great thread, JD

One cool thing about Churchill is that he comes up all the time in studying history from the Boer War onwards, because he had his finger in every pie, both Liberal and Conservative. He also had an opinion on everything, meaning he's always good for a quote in a history essay, especially one which criticises another politician...

I also find it interesting that he was such a great war leader (in WW2 - not so much in WW1) but such a terrible peacetime politician. He was either insignificant or downright bad in his peacetime roles, and only came into his own when war broke out. If it hadn't been for WW2, he would not have been remembered as a great politician. Cometh the hour, cometh the man...

It's quite amazing how he made ordinary people love him when his background was so different from their own. The idea that someone who grew up at Blenheim Palace could become the hero of the bombed-out slums, the most worshipped politican of the 20th century, is fascinating. And his use of rhetoric intrigues me as a student of literature.

I don't think he's my favourite 20th century politician - that has to go to my beloved Lloyd George, or Attlee. But Churchill was very cool, none the less

[inked]

Churchill was a truly great human. He had his faults and made his mistakes, many, but he was truly the epitome of a Renaissance individual in the British mode. I find it fascinating that he laid brick as well as painted for recreation and was such an excellent author and speaker. His speech to the boys at his former school (IIRC) was the apex of brevity,wisdom, and courageous tenacity: "Never give in; ...".

I know that I will be challenged on this statement but it is my opinion that of all the great men of the 20th Century, Churchill was and will ever be, the greatest. *bows in respect*

[Fenir_LacDanan]

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

I'm reading Churchill: A Life by Martin Gilbert. It's about 1,000 pages and seemed to have good reviews. I want to see what it says about World I and World II - including his ideas in post war Europe.

[Flamebait Deleted]
Be carefull of Gilbert as an historical source, he is an official Churchill biographer, and thus prone to favor his subject. I have read his "first world war", and Winston seems to be on every second page.

[Flame Deleted]

Last edited by Sister Golden Hair

[Fenir_LacDanan]

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

BTW - it took him three times to pass the army exam.

Anyway, back to form.

So does his lack of military service, or his failure of application to said place, inhibit his ablilty to wage war as a country's leader?

Tell me, mate, to what branch and how long did FDR serve?

Touche?

[Nurvingiel]

It was you, and not JD, who took that as a negative point.

This thread is really interesting. I wish I knew something about Churchhill.

*lurks*

[Fenir_LacDanan]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

It was you, and not JD, who took that as a negative point.

This thread is really interesting. I wish I knew something about Churchhill.

*lurks*

[Flamebait Post Deleted]

btw, Nurv is a female, not a mister.


Last edited by Sister Golden Hair

[The Gaffer]

He's certainly one of the most quotable people in history. How about:

Bessie Braddock: You are drunk Sir Winston, you are disgustingly drunk.
Winston Churchill: Yes, Mrs. Braddock, I am drunk. But you, Mrs. Braddock are ugly, and disgustingly fat. But, tomorrow morning, I, Winston Churchill will be sober.

Lady Nancy Astor: If I were your wife I’d put poison in your cup.
Winston Churchill: If I were your husband I would drink it.

Sadly probably apocryphal, but who cares?

[Nurvingiel]

LOL Gaffer!

[Response to Flamebait Deleted]

Last edited by Sister Golden Hair

[Fenir_LacDanan]

[Quote Deleted]

Sorry Las, my apology.

Its just that these sort of things tend to turn into brawls, debating over the specifics.

And I'm way too busy to fight the good fight in more than 12 threads at once...

Anyway. So Churchill was good wasn't he?

[Fenir_LacDanan]

Originally Posted by Fenir_LacDanan

[Flamebait Post Deleted]

btw, Nurv is a female, not a mister.


Last edited by Sister Golden Hair

So it would seem, my quick on the trigger friend.

And there was no flame, just look at the response. It was a jest, as intended.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally Posted by Fenir_LacDanan

So it would seem, my quick on the trigger friend.

And there was no flame, just look at the response. It was a jest, as intended.

It was flamebait.

Now, let's get back on topic.

[Fenir_LacDanan]

Originally Posted by Sister Golden Hair

It was flamebait.

Now, let's get back on topic.

Yeah.

[Spock]

.."If your not a liberal in your twenties, there is something wrong with your heart.
If you are still a liberal in your forties, there is something wrong with your head"
--W.C.

[Fenir_LacDanan]

Originally Posted by Spock

.."If your not a liberal in your twenties, there is something wrong with your heart.
If you are still a liberal in your forties, there is something wrong with your head"
--W.C.

Ha.

Easily one of his best quotes is:

"If you were my husband I would put poison in your coffee." said Nancy Astor, of the famous Astor Family. To which Churchill replied, "Lady Astor, if I were your husband, I would drink it.

But, there is this, do my lasting delight:
"The Americans will always do the right thing . . . After they've exhausted all the alternatives."

Now thats just a form of debate, with no spice or fire intended, but we shall see.
God Bless Sir Winston.

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

I wish I knew something about Churchhill.

Hm, yes, I've come to the same conclusion. Another embarassing hole in my knowledge. *joins Nurv in lurk*

Anyone have a good link to some on line material on Churchill where I can brush up what I saw in history class? Just wondering whether somebody knows a good source out of hand, you really don't have to go and look for it, I will do a search myself - eventually.

[sun-star]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

Anyone have a good link to some on line material on Churchill where I can brush up what I saw in history class?[/SIZE]

www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk is my favourite history reference site. They have a good article on Churchill here

This one isn't bad, though I'd recommend you ignore the rather silly first statement.