Dual citizenship

[Nurvingiel]

[EDIT by Eärniel: This thread is a split off from the Official US president election thread. Feel free to discuss here the benefits and downsides of dual citizenship in and outside the US.]

What if your mom was Canadian and your dad was American? How should you choose your country? (It's not quite as simple as the one you live in - you have equal ties to both your parents countries.)

I don't know how Carrey got US citizenship. I don't think you should be able to randomly apply for it, that takes away from people who really need it like refugees.

Given that we only had a 60-65% voter turn out in our elections, I doubt that people would go to a great deal of trouble just to vote in someone else's elections.

However, there's nothing wrong with dual citizenship in itself, only the abuse of this priviledge.

EDIT: Cross-post with JD and inked.

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

What if your mom was Canadian and your dad was American? How should you choose your country? (It's not quite as simple as the one you live in - you have equal ties to both your parents countries.)

You can't be TWO religions. I used to always say I was Roman/Greek Catholic because my mother was one and my father was the other. That's actually not possible though. You should have to CHOOSE ONE citizenship. Whichever country you feel attracted to the most - that is where you should live and be a citizen of.

If Carrey wants to be American - and live in this country as a US citizen - he shouldn't keep his Canadian citizenship. I see absolutely NO USE to dual citizenship whatsoever - other than people just wanting to have an influence in two countries.

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

...I see absolutely NO USE to dual citizenship whatsoever - other than people just wanting to have an influence in two countries.

i have dual citizenship in Eire and Uk,
which means that i used to be able to just go between two countries, to visit my family in Cork, or for whatever reason... that was my purpose for dual citizenship.
of course the new laws mean I don't need a passport to go to ireland anyway now, nor does any other resident of uk

but i can see a point to dual citizenship in that if half your family is from one country, you don't have to bother with visas etc for an extended stay,
are the border-laws between usa and canada such that you don't need a visa, or a passport, then?

[Fenir_LacDanan]

Originally Posted by Last Child of Ungoliant

i have dual citizenship in Eire and Uk,
which means that i used to be able to just go between two countries, to visit my family in Cork, or for whatever reason... that was my purpose for dual citizenship.
of course the new laws mean I don't need a passport to go to ireland anyway now, nor does any other resident of uk

I too also have dual citizenship. I have Eire (Ireland for the rest of ya) and Australian.
And I agree. I dont have my dual citizenship to screw people around and steal tourist's ash trays and such.

[EDIT: Flame bait removed by Eärniel. Flame baiting is not allowed on the Entmoot, Fenir. Please remember that in the future.]


Yes people, and for you lot in the cheap seats, this is Fenir the faithful and, rather drunk, throwing his hat into the political ring, once again.

[Rían]

and flame-baiting, once again

Shall I call Ireland a "rather un-important" country? The state I'm from (California) trounces Ireland size-wise and income-wise. I think California's gross national product (if we were a country) is 6th in the world.

I don't think Ireland is a "rather un-important" country, because I'm more broadminded than that. (I'm also part Irish!)

C'mon, Fenir - give us good, fun, and/or insightful comments - please don't flame-bait

[Nurvingiel]

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

You can't be TWO religions. I used to always say I was Roman/Greek Catholic because my mother was one and my father was the other. That's actually not possible though. You should have to CHOOSE ONE citizenship. Whichever country you feel attracted to the most - that is where you should live and be a citizen of.

Citizenship and religion are too fundamentally different to make this comparison IMHO. What if you split your time pretty much equally between two countries? What if you don't want to declare a favourite over your mom's or your dad's countries and essentially, the family that lives there? People's lives are too complicated to make a black and white decision on such an important factor in our self-identities.

If Carrey wants to be American - and live in this country as a US citizen - he shouldn't keep his Canadian citizenship. I see absolutely NO USE to dual citizenship whatsoever - other than people just wanting to have an influence in two countries.

I think getting dual citizenship and being born with it are a bit different. I don't really have an opinion on Carrey and other people in his situation. Those who are born with it, I think they should definitely get to keep it. Chrys and (sort of) Fenir made good points about that.

[BeardofPants]

I have no problem with dual citizenship. Don't really have much else to add. A question I wanted to ask though, as I'm not sure whether this is true or not, but if you have US citizenship, and you wanted say NZ citizenship, do you renounce the US one? Or are you not allowed to renounce US citizenship? For some reason I had this idea that you're not... but I'm sure that can't be right.

[Finrod Felagund]

Being able to work without the hassle f a green card is nice...And especially in the case of actors, with the actor's guild and all that jazz...

[Jonathan]

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

You can't be TWO religions.

Oh yes you can, just ask the Japanese.

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

You should have to CHOOSE ONE citizenship. Whichever country you feel attracted to the most - that is where you should live and be a citizen of.

I know plenty of people with dual citizenship. Earlier this year my teacher in French got herself a Swedish citizenship and was very happy with that. After all she has worked and lived here for quite some time and has a Swedish husband and a kid. But she's still French and still has her French citizenship. She was born and raised in France and that will always be her native country. I don't see why on earth she would have to choose between the one country or the other, she's equally tied to both. As Nurvingiel said, citizenship is important to our self-identities and to have to renounce your original citizenship that you are entitled to by birth would probably feel rather devastating for some people.

I also got a Russian friend who's going to get her Swedish citizenship soon. I think it would be so mean if someone told her she had to give up being Russian because of that. I don't see why people have a problem with dual citizenships. Why not allow them and make some people happy?

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

You can't be TWO religions.

the idea of having one religion, and if you follow that religion you can not follow others, is a relatively new idea, and started abouth the same time as christianity, in fact, most romans belonged to at least 3 religions, the state religion, the dii familiaris, and often their own local religion(s)
and that is a trend in many societies, but the advent of christianity, and later islam, put a stop to all that, and mutliple religions becam socially wrong.
In a way, muliple religions is a sort of insurance policy,
>oh dear, i forgot to pray to god a
> i know, i will pray to god b, and his religion will help me today
etc etc

slightly off topic, but i had to answer

[dawningoftime]

I've got dual Citizanship because my Mum is CAnadian and my Dad is American. Canada recognizes both and America...well...what can I say I was born in America therefore I am an American

[Nurvingiel]

Hey Dawningoftime, you could be my example! What's it like having dual citizenship? I guess it doesn't really affect your day to day life, am I correct?

By the way, many thanks to Earniel for sorting out this thread!

[dawningoftime]

Right it doesn't affect my everyday life, but what's nice is that when I was looking for colleges I had the option of looking at schools in Canada and going there as a Canadian citizan. Now that I'm looking for a professional job I can look in Canada, but not worry about having to get a green card to work there.

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Last Child of Ungoliant

but i can see a point to dual citizenship in that if half your family is from one country, you don't have to bother with visas etc for an extended stay,
are the border-laws between usa and canada such that you don't need a visa, or a passport, then?

Nope - don't need a visa or passport to travel anywhere in North America. I've flown and driven into Canada, as well as my mother, brother and sister going down to Cancun - the only thing I carried was a drivers license.

[jerseydevil]

I only have one thing to say here - because i have said it - I AM AGAINST DUAL CITIZENSHIP. if you want to be a part of a country - then be a part of it - if not then don't. if you have extended family - then they should have a partial citizen category then - that allows you to come to the country to visit during extended stays but does NOT allow you to vote or have a say in the government.

I stil have my house in Indiana - I am UNABLE to vote in the elections there - so what gives a foreiger a right to just have a US citizenship along with another country and vote in two countries' elections?

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Jonathan

I also got a Russian friend who's going to get her Swedish citizenship soon. I think it would be so mean if someone told her she had to give up being Russian because of that. I don't see why people have a problem with dual citizenships. Why not allow them and make some people happy?

I don't think it would be mean at all. She either wants to be Swedish - or she wants to be Russian. It used to be that people who moved to the US - like my family did - gave up their citizenship and were HAPPY to become a member of that society and country. I think people have to make a choice of what they want. Sorry - but life is full of making choices and sacrifices. As the old saying goes - you can't always have your cake and eat it too.

Also - she's still Russian - just like I'm still Italian, Irish, Polish, Czech and Russian - those are where my ancestors came from. I still have their blood running through my veins - but I'm American.

[jerseydevil]

Since Earniel didn't carry over the post I wrote which started this whole discussion I'll post it here....

Jim Carrey just became a "US Citizen". In the car I heard it on the radio - and they said he was going to be a dual citizen and keep his Canadian citizenship also. I think dual citizenship is wrong and I had thought about the voting situation when they said it - he gets to vote in both Canadian and American elections. When I came home - CNN had it on. Guess why he decided to get US Citizenship? So he frigging vote in OUR elections. I wonder - maybe I should gettiung dual citizenship in Canada - so I can vote there for people I want, and still be able to vote in US elections. Either you ARE America - or you are not - you are NOT both US Citizen and a citizen of another country as far as I am concerned. I think the US should do away with dual citizenship. It is completely unfair that non-citizens can become citizens - just so they can vote here - and then not even have to give up their citizenship to their "other" country.

I don't care if I was running for president and they were suporting me - I'm still against dual citizenship. Either a person wants to be American - or they don't. A person shouldn't be allowed to be a citizen just so they can vote.

This should actually be the first post in the thread.

So you think it's right for someone to merely become a citizen so they can vote in their elections? How would Canada feel if a bunch of Americans decided to get dual citizenship so we can vote in your elections - especially if they were republicans?

[Draken]

Well I know some dual citizens that feel passionately about being able their status, but I don't really understand that sentiment to be honest. For me it's a bit like which lane you drive a car in: choose one or the other, just don't straddle two!

Of course, it's easy for me, there just being one country in the world that brews decent beer AND plays proper sport. If Belgium gets a rugby league team or Australia starts brewing Real Ale, it gets a whole lot more complex for me!

[dawningoftime]

With my dual citizanship I still have to be registered by the time I am 28 (and there's no problem with that) and I have to have a substantianl connection to Canada or live there for one year. What makes a person an American citizanship is you were born in the States, one of your parents is American, or they have been naturalized. It's the same way in Canada. My substansial connection is my family.

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by dawningoftime

With my dual citizanship I still have to be registered by the time I am 28 (and there's no problem with that) and I have to have a substantianl connection to Canada or live there for one year. What makes a person an American citizanship is you were born in the States, one of your parents is American, or they have been naturalized. It's the same way in Canada. My substansial connection is my family.

So why do you need TWO countries? Especially the US and Canada - there is hardly a border between us. You don't need a passport, they hardly ask anything when you even go across the border. "Citizenship? Where you going? okay - go through".