The Teaching of History

[sun-star]

What subjects/events in world history do you think every student should be taught, regardless of where they're from?

[Janny]

Sheesh. Erm. You want history with a strong moral. Josiah Bartlett suggests the Romans from some unpronouncable name to another emperor. Also the crusades. ('Modern history is another name for telvision')
I personally would suggest off the top of my head the Cuban crisis and the cold war in general. Also Russia/USSR pre WWII, to show how even the 'ideal' system fails due to human failing.

[Jonathan]

The World Wars since they affected the whole wide world.
Also, teaching students about the Industrial Revolution should also be a priority for schools everywhere, especially in the industrialised world I think.

[Radagast]

The World War affected the whole world, the Great War only affected Europe and the U.S.

[Valandil]

Originally posted by sun-star
What subjects/events in world history do you think every student should be taught, regardless of where they're from?

Well... the First Age stuff can get confusing, as the sources sometimes seem contradictory - but that's what you have to expect from very ancient history and the general outline at least needs to be taught. Then there's the rise and subsequent fall of Numenor - as well as events in Middle-earth proper in those years, then the rise of the Numenorean kingdoms in Exile, culminating in the Last Alliance of Men and Elves (with proper attention to Elendil, Gil-Galad and other key figures of the era).

Then we have the many events of the Third Age... the shift in power from Arnor to Gondor, the subsequent decline of the former and the eventual, slower descent of the latter... right on up to the War of the Ring and restoration of kingship in Elendil's line. Then, for proper resolution, students should gain a good understanding of early Fourth Age events which grew out of events from the Third and earlier Ages.

Any questions?

[The Gaffer]

He he.

Evolution, definitely

[Janny]

Originally posted by Radagast
The World War affected the whole world, the Great War only affected Europe and the U.S.

You refer to WWI as The Great War and WWII as The World War? Is that a more widely used convention than I'm aware of?
(It evokes ideas of the Russian naem for WWII - The Great Patriotic War.

[Insidious Rex]

All of it of course.

[sun-star]

Originally posted by Valandil
Well... the First Age stuff can get confusing, as the sources sometimes seem contradictory - but that's what you have to expect from very ancient history and the general outline at least needs to be taught. Then there's the rise and subsequent fall of Numenor - as well as events in Middle-earth proper in those years, then the rise of the Numenorean kingdoms in Exile, culminating in the Last Alliance of Men and Elves (with proper attention to Elendil, Gil-Galad and other key figures of the era).

Then we have the many events of the Third Age... the shift in power from Arnor to Gondor, the subsequent decline of the former and the eventual, slower descent of the latter... right on up to the War of the Ring and restoration of kingship in Elendil's line. Then, for proper resolution, students should gain a good understanding of early Fourth Age events which grew out of events from the Third and earlier Ages.

Any questions?

Oh, yes, very funny

[Anglorfin]

Originally posted by Valandil
Well... the First Age stuff can get confusing, as the sources sometimes seem contradictory - but that's what you have to expect from very ancient history and the general outline at least needs to be taught. Then there's the rise and subsequent fall of Numenor - as well as events in Middle-earth proper in those years, then the rise of the Numenorean kingdoms in Exile, culminating in the Last Alliance of Men and Elves (with proper attention to Elendil, Gil-Galad and other key figures of the era).

Then we have the many events of the Third Age... the shift in power from Arnor to Gondor, the subsequent decline of the former and the eventual, slower descent of the latter... right on up to the War of the Ring and restoration of kingship in Elendil's line. Then, for proper resolution, students should gain a good understanding of early Fourth Age events which grew out of events from the Third and earlier Ages.

Any questions?

You're the man, Val.

But seriously, all history is good history. You can learn something from all of it, which is one of the reason's it's so painstakingly preserved.

Though on the other side of the coin I think it was Hitler who said, "History is nothing but a bunch of lies agreed upon." or some such thing to that effect.

History deserves to be studied from all sides, and since I think it is important to not be biased when studying things in history, mostly the wars, I am going to say that the most important thing to study is the cultural history of many different regions. It is the least political approach to history and I think the most beneficial for becoming a more understanding and accepting person, thus benefitting the world community the most.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Radagast
The World War affected the whole world, the Great War only affected Europe and the U.S.

That's not true. World War I gave us the creation of the modern Middle East we have to deal with today. World War I was a world war because it involved all the colonies and terroritories of the FORMER great european countries.

I think the development of the US Constitution and Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia should be required for everyone since every modern democracy in the world is basically developed off of it. It would teach everyone about their own constitutions and about where the modern form of government comes from.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Janny
You refer to WWI as The Great War and WWII as The World War? Is that a more widely used convention than I'm aware of?

World War I was called the "Great War" prior to WWII - then it was renamed as WWI and WWII. Contrary to Radagast's statement - both them were world wars - just as we are currently in a world war right - but some people refuse to accept what it is.

[Janny]

Thanks JD. I knew that stuff, but I was just wondering if he was using some Stalinite convention!
I don't think the war on terror will ever be perceived as a World War though, especially given the greyness of the parameters.

[Radagast]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
That's not true. World War I gave us the creation of the modern Middle East we have to deal with today. World War I was a world war because it involved all the colonies and terroritories of the FORMER great european countries.

I think the development of the US Constitution and Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia should be required for everyone since every modern democracy in the world is basically developed off of it. It would teach everyone about their own constitutions and about where the modern form of government comes from.

I disagree with you. America's republic (note, America is NOT a democracy) surely had influences of ancient Athens, ever head of Plato's Republic?

[Radagast The Brown]

I've never understood this. Maybe now is the time. You say USA is a republic, and I checked ands you're right. ("Constitution-based federal republic; strong democratic tradition")
What's the diffrerenty between a republic and a democracy then?

[Radagast]

In a republic, the people elect representatives to speak for them and to, well, represent them. In a democracy, the people themselves vote on anything and everything- it would be impossible for America to be a democracy due to its population.

[GrayMouser]

Originally posted by Radagast
In a republic, the people elect representatives to speak for them and to, well, represent them. In a democracy, the people themselves vote on anything and everything- it would be impossible for America to be a democracy due to its population.

Hmmm...that's the original definition of democracy, as derived from the Greek city-states, but now I think the distinction is usually made between a 'representative democracy' and a 'direct democracy'.

'Republic' originally referred to rule in the name of the people (not necessarily 'by the people') as opposed to a monarchy ("l'etat, c'est moi."). Thus democracies, oligarchies and tyrannies- to use the Aristotlean categories - could all be republics.

In modern terms:

America, France, Germany, India etc. - republics and democracies.

Britain, Japan, Spain, Thailand, Denmark etc.- democracies but not republics.

Pakistan, China, Cuba etc. - republics but not democracies.

Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, the Vatican, Brunei- not republics, not democracies.

Of course, given the prestige of democracy even non-democratic states try to use the name as a fig-leaf.

[Lady Magpie]

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
All of it of course.

Yes, please!

[Draken]

You could so a lot worse than plan a history curriculum around Jared Diamond's "Guns, Germs and Steel"...

Overall I think History should challenge. Instead of just saying "here's a bunch of facts which show how horrible Hitler was" for instance, I'd rather say:

How did a politician legally voted into office under a constitution that included the following:

FUNDAMENTAL RIGHTS AND DUTIES OF GERMANS

Section. I. The Individual
Art. 109. All Germans are equal before the law. . . Titles of nobility . . may no longer be conferred.

Art. 114. Personal freedom is inviolable. No restraint or deprivation of personal liberty by the public power is admissible, unless authorized by law. . . .

Art. 115. The residence of every German is a sanctuary for him and inviolable. Exceptions are admitted in virtue of the law only.

Art. 116. No one may be punished for an act unless such act was legally punishable at the time when it was committed.

Art. 117. The secrecy of correspondence, as well as the secrecy of postal, telegraphic and telephonic communications is inviolable. Exceptions may be admitted by federal law only.

Art. 118. Every German is entitled within the limits of the general law freely to express his opinions by word of mouth, writing, printing, pictorial representation, or otherwise. . .
There is no censorship, but the law may otherwise provide as regards cinematographic performances. Legislative measures are also permitted for the purpose of combating base and pornographic publications . . .

...how did he legally gain dictatorial powers and start to imprison and eventually kill his own citizens within a few years of his coming to power under this constitution? And that's before he started World War 2...

From there you can maybe understand the set of circumstances he exploited and be able to apply that knowledge to better understanding the present - which to me is the whole point of history.

[Sween]

The World Wars should allways be inculded. History of your own country is allways a must as well its important to know why your country is the way it is. But what anoyed the hell of me when i did GCSE history is we did the history of farming and textilles and a bit on medicin which to me was mind numbing boring history is important but it should also be fun allmost 100% of the people on my course couldnt give a monkeys about the four course crop rotation system we wanted to learn about battles and the romans and egyptians

well thats what i would of liked to of learned about