Fall of the Khmer Rouge

[Linaewen]

This month marks the 25th anniversary of the Fall of the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia in 1979. Looking to China's Mao Tse Tung for inspiration, the Khmer Rouge (Communist group) attempted to create an purified agarian society in Cambodia. It is imperative to note that the vast majority of Khmer Rouge members were ordinary, uneducated peasants, whos ignorance or jealousy drove them to commit horrendous atrocities.

During the 4 years that they had been in control of the country,

• Society was ‘purified’. Democratic Kampuchea (the new name for Cambodia) was cut off from the rest of the world. They were in year zero. Angka (Khmer Rouge) would be ‘all providing, all caring’.
• Capitalism, city life, religion, foreign influences and Western culture were all eliminated, replaced by an extreme form of peasant Communism. To do this:
• The cities were completely emptied; everyone was forced to work in the fields. No one had any rights, food, access to basic services, or dignity.
• Millions of Cambodians were killed. Especially targeted were those who were former Cambodian soldiers and 'educated' people. In some areas, wearing glasses could mean that you were educated, and thus you could be killed.

I was reminded of this by a friend. My family (Not any of my generation, mind you) went through an unimaginably distressing and terrible period of their lives during those years.

[Linaewen]

Also, a few days ago, my mother had to interpret for a former Khmer Rouge soldier. I don't know how I would have reacted, had I been in her shoes. She got quite worked up about it afterwards, but didn't do anything to her. It is ironic that she wouldn't be able to lay a finger on a woman who certainly committed terrible crimes, because mother has 'no right to in Australia'. Yet 25 years back, mum didn't have any rights either, and the Khmer Rouge was able to make her and everyone else's life pure hell.

[Baby-K]

I suppose in way she felt the same as say, a Jewish interprator who was asked to interpret for a Nazi soldier.

What do you mean she couldn't do anything because she doesn't have the right to in Australia? What do you think she wanted to do?

[Linaewen]

You know, like beat the crap out of the lady. That's hardly anything compared to the terrible things the Khmer Rouge did to others, but you can't just beat up people because of that here. For one thing, she wouldn't have been able to prove it, though she was quite certain.
I don't think Mum wanted to do that, though. Apart from telling us about what happened those years, she tries to block out the rest of the stuff- like what's going on in Cambodia re. the trials of the Khmer Rouge etc.

[Baby-K]

Hmm, I don't think you can beat up people for that ANYWHERE in the world. But I understand what she must have felt. Kudos to her for not giving in to that emotion.

The Khmer Rouge Trials to me almost seem like our so-called TRC (Truth & Reconciliation Committee), will they really have the same impact as the Nuremburg Trials? I'm not quite sure.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Linaewen
During the 4 years that they had been in control of the country,

• Society was ‘purified’. Democratic Kampuchea (the new name for Cambodia) was cut off from the rest of the world. They were in year zero. Angka (Khmer Rouge) would be ‘all providing, all caring’.
• Capitalism, city life, religion, foreign influences and Western culture were all eliminated, replaced by an extreme form of peasant Communism. To do this:
• The cities were completely emptied; everyone was forced to work in the fields. No one had any rights, food, access to basic services, or dignity.
• Millions of Cambodians were killed. Especially targeted were those who were former Cambodian soldiers and 'educated' people. In some areas, wearing glasses could mean that you were educated, and thus you could be killed.

That's just terrible Lin. it's good that you didn't have to live through that. How were they overthrown? They didn't have much of a reign if it lasted only 4 years.

[Nerdanel]

Originally posted by Linaewen

During the 4 years that they had been in control of the country,

• Society was ‘purified’. Democratic Kampuchea (the new name for Cambodia) was cut off from the rest of the world. They were in year zero. Angka (Khmer Rouge) would be ‘all providing, all caring’.
• Capitalism, city life, religion, foreign influences and Western culture were all eliminated, replaced by an extreme form of peasant Communism. To do this:
• The cities were completely emptied; everyone was forced to work in the fields. No one had any rights, food, access to basic services, or dignity.
• Millions of Cambodians were killed. Especially targeted were those who were former Cambodian soldiers and 'educated' people. In some areas, wearing glasses could mean that you were educated, and thus you could be killed.

I feel really stupid for not hearing or knowing anything about that! But what they did sounds unbelievable. I don't understand how one group in a society can destroy the lives of lots of people!
Though I'm not saying that our way of living and our society is the best one or the right one, that society is absolutely not the best. Not for humankind in general and not for the individual.

[Linaewen]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
That's just terrible Lin. it's good that you didn't have to live through that. How were they overthrown? They didn't have much of a reign if it lasted only 4 years.

The Vietnamese invaded. Not exactly the best way to end the régime, given the history of tension between the Khmer and Vietnamese people, but it freed them from the suffering under the Khmer Rouge.

The legacy of the Khmer Rouge remains though. There are still thousands of landmines littering Cambodian fields and mountainsides. Even after the Khmer Rouge were overthrown, when my mother's family were trying to get into a Thai concentration camp over the border, they had to walk through areas riddled with landmines. Bits and pieces of people's flesh flying through the air constantly, dead bodies everywhere.

It is fantastic that I didn't have to endure that, but it means I don't understand entirely what they went through, as much as I try.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Linaewen
It is fantastic that I didn't have to endure that, but it means I don't understand entirely what they went through, as much as I try.

But it seems as if you are close enough to it to understand the sacrifices your family went through.

I can't relate to the sacrifices my ancestors went through to come here - and none of them had to go through what your mother's family had to do.

[Linaewen]

Originally posted by Nerdanel
I feel really stupid for not hearing or knowing anything about that! But what they did sounds unbelievable. I don't understand how one group in a society can destroy the lives of lots of people!
Though I'm not saying that our way of living and our society is the best one or the right one, that society is absolutely not the best. Not for humankind in general and not for the individual.

Don't feel stupid. You can't learn everything. At least now you know.

I compare what the Khmer Rouge did to the Jewish Holocaust, in the way that everyone was transported and became slaves, as well as the atrocities committed. The Khmer Rouge wanted to kill many people, but didn't want to spend more money on bullets than they could help, so they bashed on the head with tools like hammers instead. The purpose of both was also to create a perfect society, except the Khmer Rouge was trying to eliminate a 'race' that was 'higher' above them. (Most people in the cities were/are Cambodian/Chinese like me, whereas peasants are mainly natives).

[Jonathan]

I read about the 25th anniversary of the fall of the Khmer Rouge in the paper a week ago. Almost 2 million people were killed in only 4 years. Many more people would surely have been murdered had not the Vietnamese invaded.
I'm sorry for what your family had to go through, Lin. Did they emmigrate to Australia because of the Khmer Rouge?

[The Gaffer]

Yeah, Pol Pot is probably a close third behind Hitler and Stalin in the 20th Century's League of Complete Bastards. He completely ruined the country as well as massacring about a million people. Two cheers to the Vietnamese for stepping in.

How do you forgive people who committed such crimes? I can't imagine being able to. What is going on with the KR Trials?

[Falagar]

Haven't heard much about it here (though I've only read one newspaper today).

I have however heard a lot about it in the past. There was a program about it not long ago, if I remember correctly...really awful.

[Linaewen]

Originally posted by Jonathan
I read about the 25th anniversary of the fall of the Khmer Rouge in the paper a week ago. Almost 2 million people were killed in only 4 years. Many more people would surely have been murdered had not the Vietnamese invaded.
I'm sorry for what your family had to go through, Lin. Did they emmigrate to Australia because of the Khmer Rouge?

You know what? It was partially the war in Vietnam in the first place that enable the Khmer Rouge to get into power. The Khmer Rouge (Which by the way, means 'Red Cambodia' as in the colour of Communism) used the constant US bombing raids on the countryside (during the Vietnam War) as a proof that the US wanted to destroy Cambodia. (The US also supported Lon Nol, the former leader of Cambodia, who was corrupt). Ironic that the whole thing began partially due to the Vietnamese and ended with them.

On both sides my family went to Thai concentration camps first and then were sponsored here. I don't think anyone escaped when they were still in power, because there was no hope. So, by the time many people left the country, the Khmer Rouge had already been overthrown, but they did not want to remain in the country of such awful memories, especially with the possible return of the régime.

[Linaewen]

Originally posted by The Gaffer

How do you forgive people who committed such crimes? I can't imagine being able to. What is going on with the KR Trials?

Is that a rhetorical question? Anyway, I don't think either of my parents has forgiven them. How can you forgive someone who killed so many of your family and friends in cold blood? For reasons as petty as stealing a bit of food because you're starving to death?

What's going on with the trials? Last thing I heard, not much.
Here's an article I read a while ago, let's see what else I found for someone before:

Cambodia war crimes are going unpunished:
…..
A year earlier, the Cambodian government had asked the United Nations to help try former Khmer Rouge on charges of genocide. But agreement on the joint Cambodian-international tribunal proved impossible. The prickly Prime Minister Hun Sen, once a minor Khmer Rouge officer himself, insisted that Cambodia maintain overall control.

Last month, citing concerns about independence and impartiality, the United Nations pulled out. Some human-rights groups praised the United Nations for standing on principle. But other observers expressed disappointment.

``It creates distrust of the system itself,'' said Samkhann C. Khoeun, a former refugee who is now executive director of Lowell's Cambodian Mutual Assistance Association. ``Maybe the Cambodian issue is not as important to the U.N. as what's going on in Kosovo. Milosevic is going through a trial right now, yet nothing is happening in Cambodia. We see some bias and imbalance here.''

It wasn't the first time Hun Sen made the United Nations seem impotent. In 1993, the organization spent billions to hold elections, then caved when Hun Sen refused to relinquish power to the victor.

``They left the process before they got any egg on their face,'' said Cook, now a Brown University professor. ``It seems unfortunate and cynical. They weren't going into the process squeaky clean anyway.''

A U.S. State Department official said the administration now hopes the United Nations will rejoin talks to shape ``a credible trial mechanism.''

In the meantime, the aging Khmer Rouge leadership continues to cheat justice. The latest was Ke Pauk, a top commander who oversaw a killing field where 10,000 people perished. He died peacefully, never charged with any crime….

Not sure if that has made sense, haven't read through it properly yet.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Linaewen
Is that a rhetorical question? Anyway, I don't think either of my parents has forgiven them. How can you forgive someone who killed so many of your family and friends in cold blood? For reasons as petty as stealing a bit of food because you're starving to death?

That seems to be very similar to what is going on in North Korea - at least about people starving and getting killed fro stealing food.

...It wasn't the first time Hun Sen made the United Nations seem impotent. In 1993, the organization spent billions to hold elections, then caved when Hun Sen refused to relinquish power to the victor...

I don't think there is any need for me to come out and make any public comment on my thoughts here about the UN.

[Jonathan]

Originally posted by Linaewen
What's going on with the trials? Last thing I heard, not much.
Here's an article I read a while ago, let's see what else I found for someone before

Oh, that was what I was going to ask you about. I read the UN hoped to set up a UN-assisted tribunal in 2004. So with some luck I guess the trials can begin this year.

[Linaewen]

Originally posted by jerseydevil

I don't think there is any need for me to come out and make any public comment on my thoughts here about the UN.

Hun Sen was Prime Minister, but when he was outvoted, he refused to give way. He had his army to remove any...problems.
So we had not one but two Prime Ministers. Almost as ridiculous as former Prince Sihanouk, (Lon Nol's predecessor) who was Prime Minister, President and Monarch all rolled into one.

Oh, that was what I was going to ask you about. I read the UN hoped to set up a UN-assisted tribunal in 2004. So with some luck I guess the trials can begin this year.

I sure hope so! Though I doubt my parents will be closely following the progress. Too bad Pol Pot died before he could be tried. [Insert stream of curses]

[GrayMouser]

Originally posted by Linaewen
Hun Sen was Prime Minister, but when he was outvoted, he refused to give way. He had his army to remove any...problems.
So we had not one but two Prime Ministers. Almost as ridiculous as former Prince Sihanouk, (Lon Nol's predecessor) who was Prime Minister, President and Monarch all rolled into one.

Yeah, that was one of the worst setbacks for the attempt to spread democracy.

OTOH, it's hard to see what options there were - no-one in the world was willing to send in troops to fight Hun Sen; as for sanctions, the people of Cambodia had suffered enough, and as Burma, North Korea and Iraq show, sanctions are a pretty weak weapon if the government doesn't give a damn about the general population and retains control of the security forces.

Whatever you say about Sihanouk (pere), he did manage to keep Cambodia out of direct involvement in the Vietnam War ( "Ho Chi Minh Trail? Never heard of it.")

[Radagast]

Tragic. My sympathies.