The Atrocities Of Christianity

[Lief Erikson]

I'm posting this thread, provided there are no objections, primarily for discussion of the evils done in the name of Christ. Discussion is also welcome of the good that Christianity has brought in the world.

Here, discussion can occur of people like Hitler and the Nazis, and whether the Holocaust can be attributed to Christianity. Other discussions such as the Inquisition, Crusades or other also can occur.

Positive aspects of Christianity, such as Christians' bringing the end of the Roman Gladiatorial Games, becoming the source of culture, art and literature in Europe for hundreds of years, and ending violent practices in other religions through missionary work, or other, are also welcome.

The thread is primarily here for discussing the evils, but conversing about the good also is on-topic.

[GreyMouser]

Among the Big 4- Christianity, Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism, I'll give Christianity 3 stars (out of five)- it loses for intolerance, but gains for oppositon to slavery, stronger position for women, and strength of individualism.

Buddhism- same score; points for tolerance and non-violence, loses for passive attitude to remediable evil. There is a very active Buddhist charitable organisation here in Taiwan- they did a wonderful job on tsunami relief- but it was set up in response to Christian charities, and largely modelled on them.

Islam- 1 1/2 to 2- too much fanaticism, rights of women, rigidity since the splendours of the Golden Age.

Hinduism- same score- traditional tolerance too strongly offset by caste system.

[Spock]

Oh boy have you opened a huge can of worms and I don't mean as in Martin Luther.

Get out your 10' pole and oven mits 'cause you're going to need them.

goes in search of his flame retardant suit and extinguisher grande

[Insidious Rex]

Originally Posted by GreyMouser

Among the Big 4- Christianity, Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism, I'll give Christianity 3 stars (out of five)- it loses for intolerance, but gains for oppositon to slavery, stronger position for women, and strength of individualism.

Buddhism- same score; points for tolerance and non-violence, loses for passive attitude to remediable evil. There is a very active Buddhist charitable organisation here in Taiwan- they did a wonderful job on tsunami relief- but it was set up in response to Christian charities, and largely modelled on them.

Islam- 1 1/2 to 2- too much fanaticism, rights of women, rigidity since the splendours of the Golden Age.

Hinduism- same score- traditional tolerance too strongly offset by caste system.

Extremism and fanaticism of ALL stripes have only proven to be a pox on humanity. I think the “my religion is bigger then your religion� pissing contests are a hopeless endeavor in denial and rather worthless (in fact damaging). Too many people cant see the forest for the trees because they have such a stake in their own tree.

So whos gonna be the first to say “Yes but…�

[Count Comfect]

Yes, but I like my tree...

This topic sounds scary...

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

Discussion is also welcome of the good that Christianity has brought in the world.

*snip*
Positive aspects of Christianity, such as Christians' bringing the end of the Roman Gladiatorial Games, becoming the source of culture, art and literature in Europe for hundreds of years, and ending violent practices in other religions through missionary work, or other, are also welcome.

That's way off-topic! *points to "Atrocities of Christianity"* See?

[Rían]

There's plenty of atrocities committed by people of ALL beliefs, Christians included.

I think a more interesting (and informative) question would be: which atrocities are called for, or permitted, etc., by the various belief systems? After all, a person can call themselves a Christian or a Muslim, but if they do things that aren't supported by the tenets of the Christian or Muslim faith, then it can hardly be held against that faith.

For example, the only instance I've seen of Hitler supporting his atrocities with a verse in the New Testament is when he mentions the verse about Jesus chasing the Jewish moneychangers and sellers of sacrificial animals out of the temple. Hitler apparently takes that verse and bases his policy of killing Jews on it. However, Hitler completely ignores the many instances of Jesus loving other Jews, so I hardly think his claim is valid.

Anyway, just a thought, but it's your thread, Lief.

[Spock]

****consider placing some of this into the Hitler thread also....it would be welcomed****

[Rosie Gamgee]

This discussion reminds me of one of my favourite parts in the movie Kingdom of Heaven. Balian is questioning the actions of the Templars, wondering if it is really God's will that they keep murdering the Muslims, and if the Pope really was right in commanding it. Hospitaller says to Balian:

I put no stock in religion. By the word religion I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called the will of God. Holiness is in right action, and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves, and goodness. What God desires is here [points to head] and here [points to heart], and by what you decide to do every day will make you a good man... or not.

Many atrocities have been committed in the name of every religion and god out there. Some people go berserk and take a religion's teaching either to the extreme or simply misinterpret it. This alone doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the religion. A faith must be evaluated by its teachings and its basis, not the individual interpretation of such. I am a Christian. The fact that individuals have committed atrocities small and great in the name of their 'religion' annoys me to no end, because not only does it shame me at times to be counted with the bad connotations that they give Christianity, it also besmirches the name of my God.

[Spock]

"no one expects The Spanish Inquisition"

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally Posted by Rosie quoting Hospitaller

Holiness is in right action

Right action, incidentally, being part of the Eightfold Path which leads to the Cessation of Pain, according to Buddism. Just a little tidbit of info.

[brownjenkins]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

I think a more interesting (and informative) question would be: which atrocities are called for, or permitted, etc., by the various belief systems? After all, a person can call themselves a Christian or a Muslim, but if they do things that aren't supported by the tenets of the Christian or Muslim faith, then it can hardly be held against that faith.

I'd say believer is what believer does.

Real world history shows that any fundamental belief system put into a position of power becomes corrupt and violent (radical islam, christianity during the crusades, the kkk, zionism, etc.)

The fact is religion, in all it's forms, is the ultimate justification for violence because it claims to be "the truth" and yet, at the same time, is open to individual interpretation. It allows people to be violent and believe that they are doing "the right thing" at the same time.

[Rosie Gamgee]

^^Agreed.

Originally Posted by brownjenkins

I'd say believer is what believer does.

Real world history shows that any fundamental belief system put into a position of power becomes corrupt and violent (radical islam, christianity during the crusades, the kkk, zionism, etc.)

The fact is religion, in all it's forms, is the ultimate justification for violence because it claims to be "the truth" and yet, at the same time, is open to individual interpretation. It allows people to be violent and believe that they are doing "the right thing" at the same time.

I don't know about other religions, but, as we are disscussing Christianity, I will say that this is very true: 'religion' put into power corrupts itself. The thing about Christianity, as a... faith--it cannot be forced on anyone. That is one of its primary principles, if you will. A person has to make a choice to follow Jesus. They cannot be made into Christians if they don't want to be. So forcing people to be 'Christian' from the get-go is a bad idea, and it only gets worse after that.

[Spock]

RATZ!! I was gonna make 'little christians' later today out of some mud

[brownjenkins]

Originally Posted by Rosie Gamgee

The thing about Christianity, as a... faith--it cannot be forced on anyone. That is one of its primary principles, if you will. A person has to make a choice to follow Jesus. They cannot be made into Christians if they don't want to be. So forcing people to be 'Christian' from the get-go is a bad idea, and it only gets worse after that.

I agree, but the problem comes when scripture meets reality, which is inevitable since reality is so prevalent.

History has shown that it simply doesn't matter how peaceful a certain set of scriptures is (or how violent, for that matter). People will pick, choose and interpret as they see fit (and, more importantly, how it fits their current environment). And christianity is just as easy to corrupt in this regard as any other faith. One can fault the clairity of the writings, or the people who do the interpreting, but the bottom line is that it happens anyway.

That's why I advocate looking at the real world causes for violence (hunger, poverty, human tendency to think short-term) and not getting to hung up on the "religion factor" because I think it just clouds the real issues. Sometimes to the point where fanatic believers completely lose the ability to even see the real issues anymore.

[Blackheart]

Originally Posted by brownjenkins

The fact is religion, in all it's forms, is the ultimate justification for violence because it claims to be "the truth" and yet, at the same time, is open to individual interpretation. It allows people to be violent and believe that they are doing "the right thing" at the same time.

http://www.nthposition.com/whatsgotthenongod.php

I couldn't have stated it any better myself.

There's only one thing wrong with your interpretation, it's belief systems in general, not religious belief systems...

Marxism is a belief system, so is capitolism, communism, etc etc etc.

[brownjenkins]

Originally Posted by Blackheart

http://www.nthposition.com/whatsgotthenongod.php

I couldn't have stated it any better myself.

There's only one thing wrong with your interpretation, it's belief systems in general, not religious belief systems...

Marxism is a belief system, so is capitolism, communism, etc etc etc.

Good point.

The moral: judge each and everything within it's own set of circumstances and avoid trying to frame them within an absolute belief system.

[mithrand1r]

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

I'm posting this thread, provided there are no objections, primarily for discussion of the evils done in the name of Christ. Discussion is also welcome of the good that Christianity has brought in the world.

Here, discussion can occur of people like Hitler and the Nazis, and whether the Holocaust can be attributed to Christianity. Other discussions such as the Inquisition, Crusades or other also can occur.

Positive aspects of Christianity, such as Christians' bringing the end of the Roman Gladiatorial Games, becoming the source of culture, art and literature in Europe for hundreds of years, and ending violent practices in other religions through missionary work, or other, are also welcome.

The thread is primarily here for discussing the evils, but conversing about the good also is on-topic.

I think you should do well to keep separate the religion from the people that claim to be members of that religion and the deeds that they do.

Just because there are people that do deeds in name of a religion, does not mean that their deeds are necessarily representative of that religion.