Male/Female war question

[afro-elf]

I passed the question around to my male friends and I am curious to what the females would say to this scenario.

The idea was brought up while discussioning Black Hawk Down were it was Tom Sizemore's character or perhaps it was Eric Banna's who says something to the extend of " My brothers in arms are out there and I am going back to bring them in"


Basically, the males that I spoke too said something to this affect
"Even if I had a wife and had sired children, I do not think I could have left the field knowing that I had comrades out there that I had a chance to help them. I would have trouble living with myself I did not make the attempt"

This means situations where there is "reasonable chance" that you can rescue your friends.


We had the impression that females might not understand our feelings in this matter.

We felt that females might act that way towards their children but perhaps not in other situations. I am posting this here now because it is about 2:35 Tokyo time and it is a little late to call/meet our female friends to discuss this.

What are your thoughts upon our tentitive male/female differences in this scenario?

[hectorberlioz]

this is very interesting subject...

I dont know what to say though....

[afro-elf]

On another board someone posted this and my response follows.

Male/Female war question
quote:
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Originally posted by afro-elf
We had the impression that females might not understand our feelings in this matter.

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Really? I wouldn't have thought that. Obviously, I'm not female, so I have no real ground to speak from. But, it would be my thought that feelings of kinship, friendship, fraternity (not the Greek organization) are fairly universal. I don't see why such loyalties would be considered a male-only functionality
The idea was that a female might feel that blood is thicker than water.


My response:

In the sense if a woman had a child and others were fully capable of rescuing her friends she might think it better to let the others go on the rescue mission due to her being a mother.

The males in our discussion groups all said they would go no matter if they had a family or not.

In no way did any of us think that such loyalties would be considered a male-only functionality. But specifically, would a mother make the same choice that we would have taken?
Perhaps a better way to put would be not that they might not understand our feelings, but would they have taken the same action if they were mothers, as we would have if we were fathers in the same situation even if others could do the job?

I hope provided some clarity.

[Elfmaster XK]

I see no reason why a woman, more specifically, a mother would act any different in this situation.

In the sense if a woman had a child and others were fully capable of rescuing her friends she might think it better to let the others go on the rescue mission due to her being a mother.

Well why wouldn't a man who was a father think he should go back and father his child? He is assuming someone is there to look after the child while he's away, so will go and help the friend. If it were a mother in the situation there equally will be someone caring for the child, so she could act the same. I know I would.

I do not think I could have left the field knowing that I had comrades out there that I had a chance to help them. I would have trouble living with myself I did not make the attempt

Why would that be any different for the woman? Does she value her friends/comrades less? Because I am female, and know that I personally would never leave my friends behind even if there was a slim chance of them being saved (though to be fair I have no children so don't qualify to answer the question properly I suppose) I don't understand why you would think this.

[brownjenkins]

i won't speak for women... but if it was an optional thing (i.e. i need ten people to go on this mission), as a father with young children i would let the single guys (or girls) go first... call me what you will, but in my mind family comes first... even before friends, and yes, country... that said, if it had to be me, and there was a chance to recover people (and not just corpses) i would do it in a heartbeat

if i did not have kids, or they were older, i might not feel this way... but for the first thirteen years or so, i think your children must come first

[Gwaimir Windgem]

I would agree with you, BJ. Family should come before friends, and even country.

[Tuor of Gondolin]

And what about in "Saving Private Ryan", one of the guys in the assigment to bring him back sarcastically observes something like: "Don't we have mothers, too?"

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by afro-elf
... " My brothers in arms are out there and I am going back to bring them in"

..."Even if I had a wife and had sired children, I do not think I could have left the field knowing that I had comrades out there that I had a chance to help them. I would have trouble living with myself I did not make the attempt"

This means situations where there is "reasonable chance" that you can rescue your friends.


We had the impression that females might not understand our feelings in this matter.

We felt that females might act that way towards their children but perhaps not in other situations. I am posting this here now because it is about 2:35 Tokyo time and it is a little late to call/meet our female friends to discuss this.

What are your thoughts upon our tentitive male/female differences in this scenario?

My thoughts? I completely understand. And given the situation, I would try also to rescue my friends and I would hope that those I left behind (if I died) would understand that if I left them to die, I would feel forever a guilt that would not be quenched.

I hope this helps.

[afro-elf]

Why would that be any different for the woman? Does she value her friends/comrades less? Because I am female, and know that I personally would never leave my friends behind even if there was a slim chance of them being saved (though to be fair I have no children so don't qualify to answer the question properly I suppose) I don't understand why you would think this. [/B][/QUOTE]


First, I need to clarify that we are talking about a military operation and not just a S'n'R.and was a heat of the moment decision. You are in the battle theater at the time of the situation.

Well why wouldn't a man who was a father think he should go back and father his child? He is assuming someone is there to look after the child while he's away, so will go and help the friend. If it were a mother in the situation there equally will be someone caring for the child, so she could act the same. I know I would.

No, we did not assume that there would be anyone to take care of our child or children. Even at the risk of a fatherless child the men asked in the question said that they would still go.

I see no reason why a woman, more specifically, a mother would act any different in this situation.

Do you believe that there is no change in the female psyche after she has born a child?

Why would that be any different for the woman? Does she value her friends/comrades less? Because I am female, and know that I personally would never leave my friends behind even if there was a slim chance of them being saved

Perhaps you need not see it above so I will state it again:In no way did any of us think that such loyalties would be considered a male-only functionality.

It was the second part added to this that should taken as a whole:

In no way did any of us think that such loyalties would be considered a male-only functionality. But specifically, would a mother make the same choice that we would have taken?

though to be fair I have no children so don't qualify to answer the question properly I suppose

It was queried as what do you think if any differences in the male/female psyche and the mother father psyche. It is not a question of do women feel loyality to their friends.

[Elfmaster XK]

No, we did not assume that there would be anyone to take care of our child or children. Even at the risk of a fatherless child the men asked in the question said that they would still go.

I knew that I hadn't made this sentence clear...sorry. What I meant was, there is someone with the child, I don't mean a father substitute, but I doubt that a single father would ever be in this situation because without a mother/relative to give the child to he couldn't leave in the first place. So I was trying to get at the assumption that the father thinks the child is okay on its own with the mum or whoever until he gets back, so in a reverse situation why would a mother think any different? Still, this is irrelevant to the question anyway so I see.

Do you believe that there is no change in the female psyche after she has born a child?

I don't know. There may be, and I can see why it would be expectant that there would be but in myself I can't see it making a difference.

It was queried as what do you think if any differences in the male/female psyche and the mother father psyche. It is not a question of do women feel loyality to their friends.

Well then I apologise for not being in a position to give my opinion to your question then.

[Radagast]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
I would agree with you, BJ. Family should come before friends, and even country.

Really? I disagree with this- nothing should come before one's duty to one's country.