Who's the Biggest Liar?

Out of the two nominees running for president, who do you believe to be the biggest liar and why?

David

George W. Bush

"I'm going to change the tone of politics." - GWB

"There's Adam Clymer, major-league @sshole from the New York Times." - GWB, breaking his positive pledge. He also broke it by running the negative attack ads about Gore.

"Truth" and "politicans" are not words that are usually used together.....hehe, not like "lie" and "politician", so I think that both are probably liars. But your question is, "Who is the BIGGEST liar?", so I will go with Ben's answer....Bush.

I am not a Republican fan by any stretch of the imagination. I'd probably be voting Nader, for the simple reason that his books are so much cooler than Bore or Junior's (does GWB even have one?) are.

However, I must fight the tide that has been established in this thread, for this one reason.

"As many of you know, I was very instrumental in the founding of the Internet"
-Al Gore (source: IronParrot - who would vote for Gore)

Bmilder and Anduin: How did I know you would respond that way?

I personally believe most politicians do lie at one time or another. The exception is certain persons who hold such strong principles against lying (and their record shows this) that it's conceivably impossible that they would lie. Unfortunately, Gore nor Bush fit into this category. The question really depends on who you favor in regards to the issues, not who's truly honest. Even so, I agree somewhat with what JL said. I believe the person who will be *most* honest is definitely Bush. Gore has had his share of lies in the past, and I even believe he's spreading many lies right now in order to try and get elected. Bush is probably doing this as well to some extent, but not nearly as much as Gore.

Anybody who's spent the last 8 years with Clinton has formed a perfect system of fabricating the truth. It's an indispensable consequence of being with a man like Clinton.

David

What most people don't know is that Gore really did have an instrumental role in creating the Internet. As a Senator, he sponsored legislation that led to greater government funding and development of the Internet. I believe his exact words were "I took the initiative in creating the Internet." He didn't say he created that. Look at the statement in the context of the bill he sponsored, and it makes sense.

Number one, I haven't heard the actual quote - most of my "sources" *LOL* are political cartoons, who paraphrased it to "I invented the Internet".

But if it comes to taking your word or IronParrot's, guess who I'm going to trust?

Secondly, Gore had jack-all to do with the Internet. His government funding doesn't do **** in the technological world.

According to his own campaign page, he didn't get onboard until 1986.

The people who deserve credit are the boys at Xerox who invented the 802.3 standard, the fine gentlemen at Berkley who came up with the Berkley Sockets scheme and the BSD, the researchers at AT&T who changed Multics into UNIX, etc., etc...

Heck, even if Gore paid for the entire freakin' ARPAnet out of his own pocket, he STILL couldn't take credit for as much of it as these guys - or the countless others.

(Edit: Stupid EzCodes... I accidentally used HTML instead)

I think it's rather ridiculous that Gore bragged about his "connection" with the internet. I bet he doesn't know dick about it in actuality, and he was just trying to latch onto it for popularity. There's little a politican can do in regards to founding something, especially something as immense as the internet.

Now, Gore's buddy Bill is a different story. I'm positive he created ONE side of the internet....the porn web sites.

Bmilder, I just looked at your first post, about Gore and his comments in regards to the reporter. While I certainly don't condone the use of profanity (something which Gore, Hillary, and Bill seem to use regularly, even in their political statements), I believe the thing Bush mentioned was very true. The reporter he was commenting about is a blatant liberal, and he doesn't even *try* to cover it up with the "objective reporter" junk. If Gore didn't have the media on his side, it would be a much more tilted race.

David

Ha, I was right. I got the exact wording correct.
Here's the transcript of the CNN interview:
www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/s...ript.gore/
So much for your credibility now JL
(Never doubt me on matters of U.S. politics, especially when living in Canada )

Btw, Gore did more for creating the Internet than politicians, or for example, you. Look it up, his bill did a lot to advance the technology. It's more than GWB did. (GB Sr. can't even work the supermarket checkout counters, from what I've read )

What's your source, Bmilder? Jerry Springer?

In terms of charisma, I would have a thing or two to say about Gore....he's certainly not a "good 'ol boy", that's for sure!

David

PS: By the way, Jerry Springer's support of Gore doesn't exactly strengthen Gore's "moral" image, does it?

A'ight.

I'll concede the quote thingy. Thank you for citing your source.

"I took the initiative in creating the Internet."

That's STILL a lie. "initiative" means that you helped START it. Gore did not. He directed some federal funds to link some supercomputers. That's it. He didn't fund ARPAnet, he didn't create NSFnet, he didn't pay for the underlying technology, and he sure as heck didn't help kick the whole thing off.

Give credit where credit is due.

And no, money isn't the primary factor... Linus Torvalds created the first Linux kernel for no money at all, and it changed the computer world.

"Gore did more for creating the Internet than politicians"

Wrong. Gore IS a politician.

"It's more than GWB did."

That's beside the point. Way beside. In fact, it has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion at all.

Al "No Controlling Legal Authority" Gore gets my vote.

A brief review.

Abortion:
He was against it.
He is for it.
--He is lying at least once every time he said either of those.

Communist Money Taken In The Buddist Temple:
He didn't know it was a fundraiser.
He was drinking so much iced tea that he was in the bathroom everytime it was brought up.
--"Duh," to anyone who believes that.

Bill Clinton, One Of America's Greatest Presidents:
Okay, maybe he really believed that on the day Clinton was impeached. That wouldn't make him a liar, just really stupid. If he had repudiated Clinton properly, he would be an incumbent President running for reelection.

Exaggerations
While not technically a lie, the internet boast was patently ridiculous. He did a good thing. But it is too much to say he took the initiative. He also did not discover the problems at Love Canal, he was not the inspiration for Love Story, etc.

Tobacco
His sister died. Years later, with trembling voice, he revealed his oath to deal with Big Tobacco, that killed his sister. Funny how he forgot all about his sister in the interval and proudly and loudly boasted to the tobacco farmers of how he himself was one of them, describing all the things he had done with tobacco with his own two hands.

Rats
The latest propaganda about Bush's so-called "negative attack ads" is absolutely absurd. You can't spell BUREAUCRATS without RATS, but somehow that is subliminal advertising. Al Gore can accuse Republicans of promoting "cuts" that would "kill" old folks, and that's fair. I hope to goodness "W" does start some negative campaigning. Like Paul Harvey told him the other day, "You can't walk into the White House, you must RUN."

Oath of Office
"...uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States so help me God!..."

--Don't get me started. He is a traitor along with his Boss and the whole lot. He backs up the lies of this Administration about our poor state of military readiness and that is treason all by itself.

***
For what it's worth, Bush's crass, but evidently applicable, remark about the NY Times propagandist, was not part of a Negative Campaign, and therefore does not constitute a lie. It was a stupid slip before a hot microphone. I've heard Clinton saying far more profane and obscene things on tape. Hmmmmmm?

How about Al Gore's promise? Will you come down hard on him as well? That boy may not have invented the internet, but he might as well have invented Negative Campaigning. When his lead slips, watch out.


***
I am not a Bush fan. I lambast him and the Republicans every week. I got out of a leadership role in the Christian Coalition when I learned more than I could stomach. I am a harsh critic of both the Left and the Right. Bush is the lesser of the two evils in my opinion.

But Al Gore is downright dangerous. If he wins, it won't be pretty. We need someone who will try to clean this mess up before something slips in it.

"I did not have quadratic relations with that function."
- Bill Clinton in a high school mathematics course

(Okay, I was the one who came up with that, but still...)

Gilthalion, we used to be members if the Christian Coalition. In fact, my parents were leaders of the group in a medium sized Midwestern town (we have since moved from there.) This happened around 2 years ago, in 1998 I believe. We attended the national meeting in Washington DC in September of '98. Were you there?

David

personally, i think i'm votign for Gore. why? because the independants never get enough votes to win, & because i want to keep GWB out of the White House. living in TX, i have to deal with "Good Ol' Boy" TX oilmen frequently, & they're not the type of people i want running the country. i know i'm stereotyping, but i just don't want a rich aristocrat controlling a nation that's quickly filling with immigrants & the poor - groups who have very different needs than the elite. i really don't think GWB could appropriately lead the kind of country America is becoming. for example - his reaction to Vicente Fox's idea of fully opening the border, making it easier for Mexican workers to find jobs in America. The US is definitely changing - in California & Texas already, Spanish-speaking people outnumber the English-speakers, & within a few years "minorities" will become the majority. In a culture that is changing rapidly into a more culturally open, culturally accepting, & culturally welcoming nation, there's no place for elitism. Elitism limits, and America is being forcibly expanded.

Of course, Gore is not perfect either - for example, his position in the abortion debate. But let's not forget that a politician's job is to appeal to & lead the people, & to follow their wishes, all while keeping his job as a politician. Because no one can please all of the people all of the time, this necessitates lying & slyness. Politicians by their very nature are slippery creatures, & people who stand up for their personal beliefs may be respected, but if their beliefs waver from The Norm for even a second, they're expelled from politics & lose their power & their job.

a final thought - the RATS debate - come on, people. we have a relatively sane, mud-free campaign, & the media has to make an issue out of "RATS." ooh, that's really influential. Newspeople: stick to real news, please.

aryne *

I think Bush is just stoopid, probably doesn't realize he's lying half the time

Gore, he's changing his views more often then any other polotician I can think of, and I doubt he actually has any opinions of his own. I think he's the bigger trickster.

Please bear in mind that this is a thread about which politician is the biggest liar, not which is the best/worst Presidential candidate. Let's leave that to the more... serious forums, okay?

I want you to try to top that Gore lie with a Bush one, just for laughs all 'round.

(Think: This Hour Has 22 Minutes)

In answer to Gwaihir:

I've never been to the big Road to Victory gatherings in Washington, and in fact have only driven through the capitol once.

I still help my friends in the local Coalition, but will have nothing more to do with the higher ups in this state (and no, I won't say why!). The philosophical and ethical problems that I have with the Coalition can be boiled down to two points:

1) Organizationally, everything is top down, instead of grassroots up. That ain't what's advertised!

2) I've come to rethink the entire concept of a parachurch organization that operates in the name of Christ, outside of close Pastoral authority...

I used to be Chairman for Mobile County. We have fought and soundly defeated Casinos and the Lottery. We were a balanced voice for improving our schools.

We were hamstrung by Montgomery and Washington and I don't mean the Government! I believe in Voter Guides and Voter Registration drives and lobbying and many other good things they do, but the structure is all wrong. It allows some of the State and County chapters to simply be wings of the Republican Party. And that's not right. It's not illegal, there are plenty of Democratic religious organizations. But the Church should have higher standards than expedience.


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So, no one has come up with any Bush lies that top Gore's? I assure you, you won't find one that big! And you won't find as many, either!

I guess that's settled, then!


We could probably all agree, however, that Slick Willy is the Master!

Bush said he wanted his debates seen by as many people as possible. Then he ditched the bipartisan debate plan that has been in use for over a decade in favor of informal debates on talk shows on individual channels, including one on cable. This would reach a far smaller audience. He said he wouldn't back away from his plan, and attacked Gore for not bowing to his ridiculous demands. Then the other day, he abruptly backed away from his plan and agreed to the bipartisan debates, when it became clear the public was against him on the matter of debates. If that's not a flip-flop I don't know what is.

The words "Slick Willy" bring back some memories.

Back in the day of HogWild's, I read the most hilarious song - it was obviously a parody of something, and it was about a lying contest between the Devil and WJC himself.

Guess who won?

(Edit: *kicks self* Don't use HTML tags. *kicks self* Don't use HTML tags. *kicks self* Don't use HTML tags, etc., etc.)