Istari domains/patrons

afro-elf · 03-14-2002, 03:28 PM

what where the domains of the istari and who where their patron vala

I think radagast was with yavanna (the tree lady) and was a master of shapes and hues ( illusions maybe) and animals and herb lore

what about the others

markedel · 03-14-2002, 08:04 PM

You can check unfinished tales for all of them

Sauman=Aule
Radagast=S. tagalong appointed by Yvanna
Gandalf=Manwe+Varda
Allatar=Orome (It's not clear)
Pallando

Ñólendil · 03-14-2002, 08:33 PM

Both Alatar and Pallando are associated with Orome, but their names were later changed to Romenstámo (or Rome(n)star) and Morinehtar. It is not known for sure whether the "new" Blue Wizards were with Orome or not. In the late writing wherein the new names of the Blue Wizards are laid out, the Blue Wizards came in the Second Age and of the Third Age ones Saruman came first and alone, followed by Gandalf and Radagast together. Gandalf calls Radagast his "cousin" in The Hobbit.

afro-elf · 03-15-2002, 12:43 AM

It seems aule has problems with keeping faithful maia

MasterMothra · 03-15-2002, 01:19 AM

yes it does seem that way afro, but you must be impressed at his teaching ability. his students include mahtan(instructed feanor in smithing) and sauron. the silmirils and the ring are arguably the greatest creations in me.

***Earniel*** · 03-17-2002, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by afro-elf
It seems aule has problems with keeping faithful maia

Well it does, doesn't it? It might be because Aulë himself wasn't that obidient. He created the dwarves on his own accord, didn't he? Even when he was told to wait until the elves were created. Maybe that attitude rubbed off a little in his teachings.

ged · 03-20-2002, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eärniel

Well it does, doesn't it? It might be because Aulë himself wasn't that obidient. He created the dwarves on his own accord, didn't he? Even when he was told to wait until the elves were created. Maybe that attitude rubbed off a little in his teachings.

Yes, there are a lot of parallels between Aule and Melkor. Both are creators. Some of Aule's Maiar changed to Melkor - Saruman and Sauron both were once Maiar of Aule. The differnece is the intension - Melkor creates because he wants to gain power, Aule creates "for creation itself". And the creation of dwarves was a "mistake" Aule did - in good intension, but not enough awareness of his responsibility.

To me, this represents 2 faces of one medal - the medal of "knowledge", or, in a modern context, science. Science itself is not good or bad, but can be exercised with good or bad intensions. But even with good intensions, scientists should be aware of their responsibility - reminds me of the current dispute about Genetics, robots or AI. In this sense, the Ring could also represent "abused science". Note that this is my personal interpretation, it's no try to impose analogies into Toliens world (which he wouldn't like :-)

Wayfarer · 03-20-2002, 05:06 PM

It's interesting to note that even though Aule's servants weren't always faithful, the dwarves, his creations, were notoriously hard to corrupt.

***Earniel*** · 03-20-2002, 05:24 PM

Good point, Wayfarer. And a point in Aulë's favour.

Ñólendil · 03-20-2002, 08:28 PM

Though they could be corrupted, of course. In The Hobbit "wicked dwarves" allied with the Goblins in "some parts" are mentioned, and in the Peoples of Middle-earth Tolkien mentions that many among the two tribes of Dwarrows called the Blacklocks and Stonefoots in the far East fell under the Shadow. And Dwarves in general may be said to have the weakness of possessiveness and greed. But everyone has their faults.

bropous · 03-21-2002, 02:22 AM

I had heard that the Blue Wizards were so named because of the bawdy nature of certain "elven postcards" they hawked at county fairs as they hitchhiked eastwards on the great wain trails of the Second Age. When they got to the far East they set up an herb shop and tobacconist selling illicit unguents and balms from forbidden trees to the Easterlings. They are rumored to have gone out of business in the middle part of the Fourth Age (when a particularly bad shipment caused the EasterKing to break out all in a rash), and hooked up with an entwife and a band of dark skinned elves and sailed East. There they found the "Very Long-Lived But Not Exactly Undying Lands" run by Morgoth (on parole from the Void) where they took a condo near the beach, did cheap card tricks on the boardwalk for the tourists and fell out with a couple wingless Balrogs over a crooked game of keno. They were buried with full civil servant honors.

Agburanar · 03-22-2002, 06:48 AM

Tee Hee Hee, I don't think so. Tolkien would be so offended!

Strange-Looking Lurker · 03-22-2002, 09:52 AM

<---- is quite amused.

and is wondering if he spelled amused right.

Ñólendil · 03-23-2002, 03:09 AM

LOL bropous.

markedel · 03-23-2002, 09:43 AM

Heh heh heh, not as funny as Sam the revolutinary proletarian a la "Lord of the Whatever..." bt worthy of insertion.

03-14-2002, 03:28 PM	#1
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	Istari domains/patrons what where the domains of the istari and who where their patron vala I think radagast was with yavanna (the tree lady) and was a master of shapes and hues ( illusions maybe) and animals and herb lore what about the others __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. Last edited by afro-elf : 03-14-2002 at 03:29 PM.

03-14-2002, 08:04 PM	#2
markedel 'Sober' Mullet Frosh Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Queen's Posts: 1,245	You can check unfinished tales for all of them Sauman=Aule Radagast=S. tagalong appointed by Yvanna Gandalf=Manwe+Varda Allatar=Orome (It's not clear) Pallando __________________ "Earnur was a man like his father in valour, but not in wisdom"

03-14-2002, 08:33 PM	#3
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	Both Alatar and Pallando are associated with Orome, but their names were later changed to Romenstámo (or Rome(n)star) and Morinehtar. It is not known for sure whether the "new" Blue Wizards were with Orome or not. In the late writing wherein the new names of the Blue Wizards are laid out, the Blue Wizards came in the Second Age and of the Third Age ones Saruman came first and alone, followed by Gandalf and Radagast together. Gandalf calls Radagast his "cousin" in The Hobbit. __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

03-15-2002, 12:43 AM	#4
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	It seems aule has problems with keeping faithful maia __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

03-15-2002, 01:19 AM	#5
MasterMothra Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: utumno and angband Posts: 241	yes it does seem that way afro, but you must be impressed at his teaching ability. his students include mahtan(instructed feanor in smithing) and sauron. the silmirils and the ring are arguably the greatest creations in me. __________________ "........and his name is Melkor, Lord of All, Giver of Freedom, and he shall make you stronger than they."- sauron talking to ar pharazon.

03-20-2002, 05:06 PM	#8
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	It's interesting to note that even though Aule's servants weren't always faithful, the dwarves, his creations, were notoriously hard to corrupt. __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

03-20-2002, 05:24 PM	#9
*Earniel* The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium) Posts: 14,363	Good point, Wayfarer. And a point in Aulë's favour. __________________ We are not things.

03-20-2002, 08:28 PM	#10
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	Though they could be corrupted, of course. In The Hobbit "wicked dwarves" allied with the Goblins in "some parts" are mentioned, and in the Peoples of Middle-earth Tolkien mentions that many among the two tribes of Dwarrows called the Blacklocks and Stonefoots in the far East fell under the Shadow. And Dwarves in general may be said to have the weakness of possessiveness and greed. But everyone has their faults. __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

03-21-2002, 02:22 AM	#11
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	I had heard that the Blue Wizards were so named because of the bawdy nature of certain "elven postcards" they hawked at county fairs as they hitchhiked eastwards on the great wain trails of the Second Age. When they got to the far East they set up an herb shop and tobacconist selling illicit unguents and balms from forbidden trees to the Easterlings. They are rumored to have gone out of business in the middle part of the Fourth Age (when a particularly bad shipment caused the EasterKing to break out all in a rash), and hooked up with an entwife and a band of dark skinned elves and sailed East. There they found the "Very Long-Lived But Not Exactly Undying Lands" run by Morgoth (on parole from the Void) where they took a condo near the beach, did cheap card tricks on the boardwalk for the tourists and fell out with a couple wingless Balrogs over a crooked game of keno. They were buried with full civil servant honors. __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160. Last edited by bropous : 03-22-2002 at 11:07 AM.

03-22-2002, 06:48 AM	#12
Agburanar Elf Lord Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Dorset Posts: 608	Tee Hee Hee, I don't think so. Tolkien would be so offended! __________________ I would wish, were it to any avail, that the LORD OF THE RINGS FILMS had never been wrought. ROLLING STOCK, WE'RE ROLLING STOCK!!

03-22-2002, 09:52 AM	#13
Strange-Looking Lurker Elven Warrior Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: OK, USA Posts: 213	<---- is quite amused. and is wondering if he spelled amused right. __________________ <hr>Check out my site: www.christianjugglers.org

03-23-2002, 03:09 AM	#14
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	LOL bropous. __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

03-23-2002, 09:43 AM	#15
markedel 'Sober' Mullet Frosh Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Queen's Posts: 1,245	Heh heh heh, not as funny as Sam the revolutinary proletarian a la "Lord of the Whatever..." bt worthy of insertion. __________________ "Earnur was a man like his father in valour, but not in wisdom"

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