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#1 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: California
Posts: 60,865
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The Treason of Isengard
I believe there is another thread on this forum (started by bropous or Tar-Elenion?) dealing with a worry many fans have. In The Fellowship of the Ring movie, Saruman doesn't come across as a double-crosser, but rather a mere servant of Sauron. But here's a quote I found on the official movie site, I think it may put to rest such worries:
Quote:
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#2 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 319
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Re
That's all very fine and dandy, but it simply isn't the case in the movie, whether it was intended to be or not.
Maybe it'll change in TTT but I'm not holding my breath.
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Then hate overcame Fëanor's fear, and he cursed Melkor and bade him be gone, saying 'Get thee gone from my gate, thou jail-crow of Mandos!' And he shut the doors of his house in the face of the mightiest of all dwellers in Eä. Last edited by Captain Stern : 01-26-2002 at 06:27 PM. |
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#3 |
Hobbit
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 27
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![]() Sauroman turned to the other side because he thought it was the more powerfull. I think they portray this just as well in the movie as the book.
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#4 |
Domesticated Swing Babe
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Reality
Posts: 5,340
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what, is Saruman like annakin/darth vader? I need to see the clone wars I guess.
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#5 |
Fowl Administrator
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Calgary or Edmonton, Canada
Posts: 53,420
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Guys, I don't see what the big problem is.
Saruman isn't any less subservient to Sauron in the novel. In both the novel and the film, he thinks he is acting on his own free will, working with Sauron to stay alive but trying to recover the Ring first so all the power comes to him! However, he is in a way acting under Sauron because he has been ensnared by the Palantir. The film makes a CLEAR acknowledgement of this when Gandalf says, "There is only one Lord of the Ring - and he does not share power." Despite Saruman's rhetoric to ensnare Gandalf, the latter realizes the former's true motives. Just because it's implicit (and quite clearly so, I think) doesn't mean it's not there.
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#6 |
Peer of the realm of Sanguine
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: The Hill, Marlton, NJ
Posts: 798
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I think the movie quite clearly portrayed Saruman as a traitor. Gandalf refers to him as "the head of our order" and goes to him seeking advice.
What is missing in the exposition is the last meeting of the white council where Saruman declares that the ring is lost in the sea by way of the Anduin. This is the real teachery, a deliberate lie intended to deceive Gandalf and the rest while Saruman searches for the ring. What's also not evident is Saruman's envy of Gandalf. I don't have a problem with either, the movie by its nature has its limitations, and such subtleties of plot and character are bound to be lost or harder to find.
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#7 |
Long lost mooter
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,342
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I think the original worry was that Saruman was being portrayed as truly chooing to be under Sauron's command, when he actually is seeking to become the Lord of the Rings. That point wasn't played up very much, but my guess is that it will become very obvious in the second film to those who may not have caught the subtlety in the first.
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#8 |
Lurker
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Lothlórien
Posts: 3,419
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Oops. I didn't mean to post this. Sorry admins. My hand slipped and I hit the little button.
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There's antimony, arsenic, aluminum, selenium... Last edited by Elf Girl : 05-07-2002 at 06:52 AM. |
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#9 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 192
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One of my friends who hadn't read the book wondered, why Gandalf didn't call "all other wizards to help" after betrayal of Saruman...
After I explained, why such thing couldn't happen, he taught that it was pretty silly to call Saruman "head of the order", then. I say it fits, but it perhaps could be explained a bit better in the film, that there really ain't but three active wizards in the world. |
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#10 |
the Shrike
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA <3
Posts: 10,647
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All very good points.
However, the main problem I have with the movie characterisation of Saruman, is that you don't really get a chance to see him pretending to be "good". I mean, the movie pretty much, just leaps straight into that silly staff hurling, fight thing. I think Saruman's treachery (among other things) probably could have been more detailed. As far as I'm concerned, there practically was no double-crossing, because he never really got the chance to play at being a pretend good guy. Just my opinion. Please don't hurt me. ![]()
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#11 |
Enting
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: south england
Posts: 93
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saruman the dud
I run a website (which i cant promote here cos the cardigans won't let me) and the response there tells me that Saruman is a dud villain. I think its the fight scene at the start. The audience just sees him as a kind of Bond baddie. He blows his baddieness in his first major scene. So what he can win a fight, we know that in the genre this means he will lose the war so the audience just lose interest in him. Villains are supposed to delay a confrontation so we can savour the action later. The function of great baddieness is to make us wait for the showdown. Saruman just beats people up and then dies on a spike'''awful. Read the passages in the book to see how the duel between the wizards is a verbal tour de force. Only the ego of Saruman takes a beating. Maybe chris lee will do better in clones where, according to the poster, he is due to play an old man with a torch.
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#12 | |
the Shrike
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA <3
Posts: 10,647
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Quote:
Back on topic: I HATED the way they changed the duel of the minds into a staffbapping contest. Really?! ![]()
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
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#13 |
Enting
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: south england
Posts: 93
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chris hack
cmon he's a hack actor...chris lee sits in those press conferences doing the ol thespian thing in his tweeds ('my dear boy i worked with the Nashnul Feater y'know) and look what his output is. A terrible Saruman and an old sith (is that thaid with a lithhhppp?). No decent actor would take the script... except er Larry Olivier ....
One rule is never have old men fighting in movies. In boys from brazil a creaking Gregory Peck fights Larry Olivier and it looked bloody daft. I still (or is that thhhtill) cant get over that poster for bring on the clones...my dad (may he rest in peace) once came home with a top of the range torch in about 1982. He was pretty old and frail by then and this thing just looked daft, like a halogen beam thing that could pick out craters on the dark side of the moon. Chris lee in that poster reminds me af dear ol da' sitting in the garden flicking this thing on and off. Just doesn't kinda marry up.... |
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#14 |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
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![]() I think the fact that Jackson showed that Saruman was in direct contact with Sauron through the Palantir in Fellowship of the Ring was one of the many mistakes Jackson made with the film.
Everyone I talk to that hasn't read the book thinks that Saruman plans on getting the Ring for Sauron and is just one of Sauron's hencemen. There is no slow buildup to Saruman's evilness in the movie. We knew within 45 minutes that Saruman was using the Palantir - where as in the Books we don't find out until after the destruction of Isengard. That is the first time we know that Sauron is controlling him. In the book there isn't an Orc asking Saruman -"What does the eye command, master?" But I guess again it had to be dumbed down for the audience and have neon lights flashing - "Saruman is controlled by Sauron" for people to understand it.
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#15 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mirkwood
Posts: 112
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Blank
I say the scene showing Saruman talking to Sauron is good. it shows that he has been corrupted.
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#16 |
lord of the ents
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: nc
Posts: 539
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![]() THATS A LONG QOUET
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#17 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Valinor, right next to Telperion . . . what did you expect, Michigan?
Posts: 1,315
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Quote:
*thinks* Wait . . . did you mean that? I did. Entss89: What's a "long qouet," smelly Orc, dear? Is your keyboard permanent locked on caps? Eesh. And whatever is the matter with your spell check . . . and, for that matter, grammar? Complete sentences . . . what an obscure theory. *evil grin*
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#18 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Valinor, right next to Telperion . . . what did you expect, Michigan?
Posts: 1,315
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Oops . . . The terrible now-edited double-poster (I swear, it was a mistake!) begs forgiveness of the Almighty Admins and Mods and her fellow Mooters.
Geez, I feel like a total idiot . . . ![]()
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The Third Age of Entmoot has begun. Angel of music, guide and guardian! Grant to me your glory! The country I eat and spend the day in is by no means the country I sleep and dream in. Define patriotism. Hold the boat, you spastic monkey! ~ Elenka Last edited by Laurelyn : 08-26-2002 at 10:55 AM. |
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#19 |
im quite stupid
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cockermouth
Posts: 2,058
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http://www.sideshowtoy.com/cgi-bin/c...01R&type=store
heres a nice pic with the dreaded wheel in it.
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