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#1 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: European Union
Posts: 463
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A lady Istari?
I think it would have been nice if at least one of the Istari had been a lady. Any suggestions?
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'They need more gardens,' said Legolas. 'The houses are dead, and there is too little here that grows and is glad. If Aragorn comes into his own, the people of the Wood shall bring him birds that sing and trees that do not die.' |
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#2 |
Self-Appointed Lord of the Free Peoples of the General Messages
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,214
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NO!
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#3 |
Enting
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 51
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Hmm, if one is looking for a lady wielder of--well, humans would say magic
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#4 |
The Insufferable
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,333
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No. I think the Istari were great the way they were in the books.
And hey, if Melian gives us any clue, she would prolly have ended up sleeping with someone and abandoned the whole thing. ]: ) But hey, a female wizard wouldn't be a problem with me... just, not at the expense of replacing one of the originals.
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Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned |
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#5 |
Halfwitted
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Eryn Vorn
Posts: 1,659
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Wizards have always been male. I've never heard of a female wizard, they're always witches or sorceresses or something. Super powerful females would be cool, but why call them Istari? And I agree that Galadriel and Melian should qualify.
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Fingolfin lives! ... in my finger! The Crossroads of Arda - Warning. Halfwit content. Not appropriate for people with IQ of over 18. The Fellowship of the Message Board Nyáréonié - The Tale of Tears |
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#6 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: California
Posts: 60,865
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It would have been cool just for variety, I suppose. Actually there may very well have been female Istari, but only males appear to have come to Middle-earth. Different texts would seem to imply that there were not only five in that order.
We know for sure that Curumo, Olórin and Aiwendil were all male, that leaves the Blue Wizards. But Pallando, Alatar, or (the later names) Romenstar/Romenstámo, Morinehtar sound masculine. Tolkien said all five had beards, anyway, and they came looking like old Men, not Dwarves. I don't see why there couldn't have been a female Istar or two (or three or four or five, etc.,) back in the Blessed Realm.
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Falmon -- Dylan |
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#7 |
Hobbit
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: New York City
Posts: 44
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Female Istari
oi! I can't stand to see or read this anymore, and I see no reason why you should either. Oi.
Last edited by Sirithdal : 01-28-2002 at 04:28 AM. |
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#8 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: California
Posts: 60,865
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Welcome!
Quote:
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Falmon -- Dylan |
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#9 | |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: European Union
Posts: 463
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Re: Female Istari
Quote:
Their origin was not really mysterious, it is thoroughly explained in LotR, The Sil, UT and so on. I sometimes find it interesting to speculate a bit if the companies appearing in LotR were not so male dominated: The Fellowship of the Ring, the Nazgul, the Istari... The only exception I can think of is Galadriel active in The White Council. So while I would not really want to change the texts and advocate a lady Istari, the thoughts of alternative courses are fantasy-evoking... ![]()
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'They need more gardens,' said Legolas. 'The houses are dead, and there is too little here that grows and is glad. If Aragorn comes into his own, the people of the Wood shall bring him birds that sing and trees that do not die.' |
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#10 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: California
Posts: 60,865
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Istar, no 'i'. I'm sorry, I couldn't stand it, I have to say that. The singular form is Istar.
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Falmon -- Dylan |
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#11 |
Hobbit
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 18
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the Istari are the wizards right?
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Everyone dies, but not everyone truly lives... |
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#12 | |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 319
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Quote:
I have to agree, I wouldn't like to see a female Istar either, I don't think it would fit in with Tolkien's mythos, with females (of any race; be they Man, Elf or Ainu) playing spousal/ supportive roles throughout the ages. On the other hand there is Eowyn ![]() NO!
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Then hate overcame Fëanor's fear, and he cursed Melkor and bade him be gone, saying 'Get thee gone from my gate, thou jail-crow of Mandos!' And he shut the doors of his house in the face of the mightiest of all dwellers in Eä. |
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#13 |
Hobbit
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: New York City
Posts: 44
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![]() Dear Kirinki54,
I'm sorry if I displayed my ignorance by suggesting you may not have read The Silmarillion. It's been a while since I read it, I know. If I was presumptuous, well, at least I said "if" you had not already read it. In any case, let me try a different line. I believe your main complaint or concern is that women do not have more prominent roles in the trilogy. Well, I would defintely agree with that. The same applies to the movie, which was truly fabulous, by the way. It turns out that only two wizards have any role to play in the trilogy - Saruman and Gandalf; the other three that came to Middle Earth ca. III, 1100 are hardly even mentioned. Maybe if J.Rs had included more wizards in the story he might have considered including a female Istar, but I wonder if this really would have worked. Wizards (Istari) are men, it seems. Women are ... well, something else! (and that's no lie) I would very much have liked to see more women of magical power in the trilogy, as well as more common women-folk -- more female characters. Some of the female Hobbits and female hobbit children were simply adorable. Of course, one result of JRs omission is that the women he does include become all the more special. Kate as Galadriel was perfect. She has a natural set of eyes, the shape, dignity and a peculiar something else besides -- something ancient and glittering, I think. I also loved Tyler as Arwen, another natural elf. And, hey, did you happen to notice in the movie the two female forest guards which made up most of the party that made Gimli sputter his faux-paux in "The Lady's" forest? Those were some formidable she-elfs, baby! So noble, strong and fair. There must be more, yes more, about Arwen's decision and supreme sacrifice in marrying Aragorn - so long as things in the movies yet to be made are elastic - for this is one of the most profound and beautiful love themes that I can think of. Last edited by Sirithdal : 01-24-2002 at 11:59 AM. |
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#14 | |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: European Union
Posts: 463
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Quote:
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'They need more gardens,' said Legolas. 'The houses are dead, and there is too little here that grows and is glad. If Aragorn comes into his own, the people of the Wood shall bring him birds that sing and trees that do not die.' |
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#15 | |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: European Union
Posts: 463
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Quote:
As for the rest of your post, hope to answer more later. Have to dash off to work... Stay well, Sirthdal! ![]()
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'They need more gardens,' said Legolas. 'The houses are dead, and there is too little here that grows and is glad. If Aragorn comes into his own, the people of the Wood shall bring him birds that sing and trees that do not die.' |
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#16 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: California
Posts: 60,865
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Quote:
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Falmon -- Dylan |
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#17 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Merry old England
Posts: 413
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Yes, I get out a lot like that.
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Take up the White Man's burden-- The savage wars of peace-- Fill full the mouth of Famine, And bid the sickness cease; And when your goal is nearest (The end for others sought) Watch sloth and heathen folly Bring all your hope to nought. Last edited by Radagast : 08-05-2004 at 11:17 AM. |
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#18 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: and why do YOU want to know?
Posts: 685
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![]() I think that would be cool if there was female Ishtar, but the Ishtari are fine the way they are....
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The only thing active about me is my imagination! |
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#19 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: and why do YOU want to know?
Posts: 685
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![]() hey sweet im an elven warrior!!!
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The only thing active about me is my imagination! |
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#20 |
Hobbit
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Oxford -- (one) home of the man himself
Posts: 28
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Trigger for fantasy vs facts
I think I read the original thread opener differently to some of you...(but then I've been told about that kind of thing before)
I like the serious discussion re possibilities and the idea that such a discussion can be fantasy evoking and start us down our own fantasy paths... I hardly think that anyone is suggesting that JRR be rewritten and characters changed to females -- that would be like rewriting the Narnia books to leave out Aslan...oh, wait a minute.... ![]() |
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Can the Istari be considered a 'race'? | clep_web | Middle Earth | 5 | 04-24-2006 10:33 AM |
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