Istari Anyone?

LickTheEnvelope · 03-10-2005, 03:53 PM

For those of us who have yet to read the "Lost Tales," which I understands explains the Istari in detail, can anyone describe them in a bit more detail.

Some things I have learned are that there are 5:
1. Gandalf (Mithrandir) fallows Manwe+Varda
2. Saruman fallows Aule
3. Radagast is a tagalong appointed by Yvanna
4. Allatar (little known)
5. Pallando (little known)

It is said they were sent to ME "when ME was in need of help"... ?
Does anyone know if the Lost Tales mentions when?

Some on this forumn have posted that Allatar and Pallando went East on another errand and having taken the form of men became like old men and blended in with civilizaions they encountered and stayed?

I'm sure this thread has been up before, but searching around I haven't found much good information on such srong characters, so I thought I'd bring up discussion.

me9996 · 03-15-2005, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope

For those of us who have yet to read the "Lost Tales," which I understands explains the Istari in detail, can anyone describe them in a bit more detail.

Some things I have learned are that there are 5:
1. Gandalf (Mithrandir) fallows Manwe+Varda
2. Saruman fallows Aule
3. Radagast is a tagalong appointed by Yvanna
4. Allatar (little known)
5. Pallando (little known)

It is said they were sent to ME "when ME was in need of help"... ?
Does anyone know if the Lost Tales mentions when?

Some on this forumn have posted that Allatar and Pallando went East on another errand and having taken the form of men became like old men and blended in with civilizaions they encountered and stayed?

I'm sure this thread has been up before, but searching around I haven't found much good information on such srong characters, so I thought I'd bring up discussion.

I don't know about alter or palantro ether...

Twista · 03-16-2005, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope

4. Allatar (little known)
5. Pallando (little known)
.

Yes well Tolkien wrote very little about them. What you have mentioned is basically it. The two went into the east and weren't heard from ever aagin... Tolkien doent care to share why.

LickTheEnvelope · 03-16-2005, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twista

Yes well Tolkien wrote very little about them. What you have mentioned is basically it. The two went into the east and weren't heard from ever aagin... Tolkien doent care to share why.

Aww poo, they seem very intresting to me.

ItalianLegolas · 03-16-2005, 04:06 PM

Heres how it goes:

Gandalf follows Irmo (Lorien) and Nienna
Saruman follows Aule
Radagast follows Yavanna
Alatar and Palando follow Orome

And ultimately they were all sent by Manwe... but Radagast was sent on Yavanna's reccomendation i think...

For a complete list of Valar-Maiar relationships that I compiled go here

Attalus · 03-16-2005, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope

For those of us who have yet to read the "Lost Tales," which I understands explains the Istari in detail, can anyone describe them in a bit more detail.

Some things I have learned are that there are 5:
1. Gandalf (Mithrandir) fallows Manwe+Varda
2. Saruman fallows Aule
3. Radagast is a tagalong appointed by Yvanna
4. Allatar (little known)
5. Pallando (little known)

It is said they were sent to ME "when ME was in need of help"... ?
Does anyone know if the Lost Tales mentions when?

Some on this forumn have posted that Allatar and Pallando went East on another errand and having taken the form of men became like old men and blended in with civilizaions they encountered and stayed?

I'm sure this thread has been up before, but searching around I haven't found much good information on such srong characters, so I thought I'd bring up discussion.

The information that you seek is not in The Books of Lost Tales but in Unfinished Tales, a most informative and interesting book.

LickTheEnvelope · 03-16-2005, 06:36 PM

Thanks Attalus and Italian,

Both hopeful, first I think I'll finish up with the Sil before I take on the Unfinished Tales... are the Lost tales essentially before readin the unfinished?

Beor · 03-16-2005, 08:02 PM

I would read the unfinished Tales prior to trying to start the Lost Tales. The Unfinished Tales deals more with the published or psuedo-published material, whereas the Lost Tales is sort of from the start of his writing to the end of his life and how the mythology changed throughout.

Attalus · 03-19-2005, 03:14 PM

I fully agree, since I regard The Books of Lost Tales as essentially juvenalia, very tenuously related to the published Canon.

Falagar · 03-19-2005, 05:13 PM

Tolkien's writing-style isn't...fully developed in the Lost Tales, IMO (though the version of The Fall of Gondolin in part 2 is brilliant).

There's also a story about the two blue wizards in the History of Middle-earth XII, The Peoples of Middle-earth, though it doesn't give any more information (rather adds to the confusion).

me9996 · 03-20-2005, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falagar

Tolkien's writing-style isn't...fully developed in the Lost Tales, IMO (though the version of The Fall of Gondolin in part 2 is brilliant).

There's also a story about the two blue wizards in the History of Middle-earth XII, The Peoples of Middle-earth, though it doesn't give any more information (rather adds to the confusion).

Purhaps that's the point?

03-10-2005, 03:53 PM	#1
LickTheEnvelope Hobbit Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Vancouver Posts: 28	Istari Anyone? For those of us who have yet to read the "Lost Tales," which I understands explains the Istari in detail, can anyone describe them in a bit more detail. Some things I have learned are that there are 5: 1. Gandalf (Mithrandir) fallows Manwe+Varda 2. Saruman fallows Aule 3. Radagast is a tagalong appointed by Yvanna 4. Allatar (little known) 5. Pallando (little known) It is said they were sent to ME "when ME was in need of help"... ? Does anyone know if the Lost Tales mentions when? Some on this forumn have posted that Allatar and Pallando went East on another errand and having taken the form of men became like old men and blended in with civilizaions they encountered and stayed? I'm sure this thread has been up before, but searching around I haven't found much good information on such srong characters, so I thought I'd bring up discussion.

03-16-2005, 04:06 PM	#5
ItalianLegolas Tolkien-aholic Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: somewhere in the solar system... more specifically NJ... Posts: 712	Heres how it goes: Gandalf follows Irmo (Lorien) and Nienna Saruman follows Aule Radagast follows Yavanna Alatar and Palando follow Orome And ultimately they were all sent by Manwe... but Radagast was sent on Yavanna's reccomendation i think... For a complete list of Valar-Maiar relationships that I compiled go here __________________ What was lost is now found.

03-16-2005, 08:02 PM	#8
Beor founder of the color blue Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: E-Space Posts: 1,727	I would read the unfinished Tales prior to trying to start the Lost Tales. The Unfinished Tales deals more with the published or psuedo-published material, whereas the Lost Tales is sort of from the start of his writing to the end of his life and how the mythology changed throughout. __________________ Well, there it is.

03-19-2005, 03:14 PM	#9
Attalus Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: On the Bay of Belfalas Posts: 1,125	I fully agree, since I regard The Books of Lost Tales as essentially juvenalia, very tenuously related to the published Canon. __________________ "What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial.

03-19-2005, 05:13 PM	#10
Falagar Death of Mooters and [Entmoot] Internal Affairs Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Oslo, Norway Posts: 2,870	Tolkien's writing-style isn't...fully developed in the Lost Tales, IMO (though the version of The Fall of Gondolin in part 2 is brilliant). There's also a story about the two blue wizards in the History of Middle-earth XII, The Peoples of Middle-earth, though it doesn't give any more information (rather adds to the confusion). __________________ Fëanor - Innocence incarnated Still, Aikanáro 'till the Last battle.

03-16-2005, 06:36 PM	#7
LickTheEnvelope Hobbit Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Vancouver Posts: 28	Thanks Attalus and Italian, Both hopeful, first I think I'll finish up with the Sil before I take on the Unfinished Tales... are the Lost tales essentially before readin the unfinished?

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