Egypt is the origin of Christianity, Judaism & Islam

[The Telcontarion]

Elfhelm
Actually, it seemed to me the first time as a new twist on Holocaust Denial.
Quote:
It always seemed to me as a child that gods children* where always punished and houseless, it just didn't make sense; I guest that's why I became an athiest, none of it made sense, now it does. Like someone wanted it to seem there is always hardship and pain when you follow god. Now I know that we are being lied to, they were rewarded with egypt not made slaves.

* = the Jews

Now you are calling me an antisemite!!!!

****MODERATOR COMMENT***this is NOT what is being said...don't percieve things that aren't there

[Elfhelm]

Not you, your master, the Egyptian guy. He is saying that the Jews were not enslaved by the Egyptians. That they were, instead, the Pharaohs. The enslavement by Egypt is probably historically more devastating to the Jews than the Holocaust. So denying it is even more atrocious. You are submitting your mind to a questionable person, Tel. Find out his motive. What's in it for him? I think you should be more suspicious.

[Butterbeer]

*squints hard at Elfhelm suspiciously*

[Elfhelm]

*withers under the gaze of the mighty Butterbeer*

Yeah, what's in it for me, eh?

[The Telcontarion]

Originally Posted by Telcontarion

I think your motivations should be questioned, especially after calling this man my master for a second time, after I told you I have no [SIZE=4]***edit by Moderator***master!!!![/SIZE] I am going to ignore you from this moment forward.

Profanity is not to be used on the MOOT. Civil dialogue.

***ALSO***opinion as stated is NOT something which violates MOOT rules...and NOT a post which needs reporting****

[Elfhelm]

Assuming you won't be able to resist the urge to read this.

A master is one to whom you subserviate your mind. I acknowledge several as masters. It's not a big deal. Some people are smarter than us. Whitman, for instance.

But you should know that if you repeat the words of another continually and surrender your own ability to differentiate, people will assume this other is one of your masters.

You are too entrenched. You need to be more critical.

Also, if you intend to become a writer, you have to tolerate criticism better.

[Count Comfect]

Originally Posted by The Telcontarion

So you see, it is hard to reconsile what you have said with what has already been debated. The root ban is egyptian, so now my reply to your original post seems to be right on the money.

The root "ban" is MODERN Egyptian, ie a colloquialism in the Egyptian dialect of Arabic (and "bayan" for "rhetoric" is definitely Arabic... just google "bayan rhetoric" and see what you find). That the word is used in Egyptian Arabic is no indication that it is ANCIENT Egyptian. In fact, given its presence (as "bayan") in other Arabic, it is almost certainly an introduction from Arabic (with a simplified root) rather than a holdover from older times.

As I said, it seems like he is translating a) hieroglyphics as Arabic phonemes and/or b) hieroglyphic phonemes (with non-Arabic meanings) as if they were Arabic phonemes (with Arabic meanings). Ba-n in Ancient Egyptian won't mean "bayan" in Arabic any more than it will mean "ban" in English, because they are languages with different histories.

[The Telcontarion]

I don't agree as per reasons already stated.

[BeardofPants]

Originally Posted by Elfhelm

Actually, it seemed to me the first time as a new twist on Holocaust Denial.

That was/is my feeling as well. I find it very questionable that some dude who doesn't even HAVE qualifications in translating the ancient egyptian language other than some dubious claim that it is still a spoken one, is trying to erase the history of the slavery of the jews.

Nice try CC, seems though that logical arguments and facts refuse to be seriously considered in this thread.

[HOBBIT]

If you don’t mind my asking, what religion were you before you became an atheist Tel?

Remind me again in April that there is no reason to celebrate Passover. :P

[The Telcontarion]

Originally Posted by HOBBIT

If you don’t mind my asking, what religion were you before you became an atheist Tel?

Remind me again in April that there is no reason to celebrate Passover. :P

I was a christian, anglican church of england to be exact!!!

And to whom it may concern, saying God and damn is not profanity.

[Elfhelm]

Since this thread is supposedly about the origins of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, it seems reasonable to investigate the origin of this taboo. It's obvious to me that condemning another person or his ideas is unacceptable in all three religions. But where exactly does the idea of Hell come from? It must come from the Egyptians, according to Tel. Judaism has a place called Sheol. Do the Egyptians? I don't believe so.

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by Elfhelm

But where exactly does the idea of Hell come from? It must come from the Egyptians, according to Tel. Judaism has a place called Sheol. Do the Egyptians? I don't believe so.

Good question. The Egyptians have a paradise, IIRC, the gardens of Ialoe. They also have a great deal to say about the afterlife, but if denied that, that seems to be the end, there doesn't seem to be any place left to go then. At, least not that I remember...

Although the whole road you have to follow towards Osiris' domain to get your heart weighed is scary enough IMO. Or wasn't that their equivalent of Hell in the first place? I don't recall.

[Rosie Gamgee]

Originally Posted by The Telcontarion

I was a christian, anglican church of england to be exact!!!

Just out of curiosity (with apologies because this might be going off-topic), by saying 'I was a Christian,' do you mean that you knew Jesus? that the Spirit of God dwelt in your heart? Because I've often been curious about people who 'convert' to another way of thinking/religion from what they call 'Christianity'. Again, just wondering.

[Butterbeer]

heh!

El Tels' English!!

... you only need half a brain, Rosie to be dis-enchanted with the church of England ...and that applies from all angles, from beleif to atheist to agnostic all the way round in a veritable Shakespearian circle back to true beleiver....

Don't answer it El Tel - it may be a trap!

in fact it certainly IS.

*draws out debating rapier and takes EL Tel's right hand side*

*for St george!! ... and er ... the Sphinx (??)

[The Telcontarion]

Originally Posted by Rosie Gamgee

Just out of curiosity (with apologies because this might be going off-topic), by saying 'I was a Christian,' do you mean that you knew Jesus? that the Spirit of God dwelt in your heart? Because I've often been curious about people who 'convert' to another way of thinking/religion from what they call 'Christianity'. Again, just wondering.

Well, what I mean is that I was raised christian; went to church every sunday, the whole bit. You may not be familiar with the anglican church, there are not many in america, however it is the dominant christian church in jamaica or any other english speaking caribbean island. It is very similar to the catholic church. I was a christian because my parents wanted me to be not because of choice.

So I believed as all christians do and basically have the same beliefs today. The difference now is that, that belief is based on, and tempered with, research and knowledge (as the topic of this thread) as oppose to blind faith, which is the way the masses have ever been enslaved.

I believe I have far more faith now than I ever had, and it increases daily. So I find it quite strange indeed, when some would say that I merely would believe anything, when they are just simply acting through faith with out varifiable truth and knowledge.

[Butterbeer]

is not true faith by definition blind though? Else it is not faith but a system of beleif?

ah..... not a Knight of St george then EL tel?

are you jamacian or american???

*BB's rapier is not lightly given though .... the honour of the just and the given sword is ever the judge of the true knight....*

[Elfhelm]

I can explain what he means, and Tel, correct me if I'm wrong. Osiris is sacrificed in the form of a bread and his flesh is eaten and with a barley beverage. The Last Supper is oddly similar to this custom. In fact, this is the original Eucharist. It was taken up by the Hellenes around the time of Jesus, and the Eucharist is incorporated into every mystery cult.

There's only one flaw to Tel's theory, IMO. This information came about from what his... er... mentor... calls a mistranslation. So, IMO, it's just another case of cherry-picking the facts. When convenient, the traditional translation is acceptable. When inconvenient, a substitute translation is created.

FWIW, to be a Christian doesn't mean to have God in your heart. It means Christ died for your sins. If I don't accept that Christ's death was necessary for your salvation, then I'm not a Christian. Many religions believe it is good to have God in your heart. Some even say the name of God over and over to get closer, and they wear saffron robes and shave their heads and don't eat meat. But they do try to have God in their hearts.

[Butterbeer]

only one flaw?

..already the odds are shortening!

..witness the power and the glory of the flashing blade!

...........................

JWIIW?

(exactly)


...........................




It IS to have God in your heart ..and your Soul and in your actions and to love .... any wicked fool can agree he died for your sins ... does that make your soul worthy?

Nay.

...........................


when you say mystery cult BTW do you include Chrisitianity into that or exclude it? If the latter perhaps you would be so good to explain to us all here gathered the criteria for the differential?


best, BB xx

[Elfhelm]

Not I... I believe ... differently. I think Jesus had a different idea altogether, about love and not fighting and poverty such, but all that mystery cult stuff was added by later people. Which is discussed ad infinitum on the theology thread.

But the kicker for me is, this canabalism/sacrifice sin forgiveness business takes other forms in other religions that had no connection whatsoever with any of these middle eastern people.*

On the other hand, there are a lot of scholars (whom Tel's mentor rejects) who hold that the Eucharist is referenced in the heiroglyphs.

* the white dog of the Iroquois, for instance