04-24-2006, 11:39 AM | #141 | |||||
Elf Lord
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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04-24-2006, 02:59 PM | #142 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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And since the fundamental faiths tend to be more violent (i.e. the ones who hold scripture over reality, or say that a certain scripture is reality no matter what is show to them), those should be avoided.
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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04-24-2006, 03:03 PM | #143 | |
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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04-24-2006, 03:04 PM | #144 | |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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*light-bulb over head I have an idea! Let's go back to the old days of outlawing Catholicism! And while we're at it, let's get Evangelical Christians, Eastern and Oriental Orthodox, and Orthodox Jews!
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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04-24-2006, 04:51 PM | #145 | |
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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04-24-2006, 06:05 PM | #146 | ||||
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It is primarily liberals who are advocating abortion (which has exterminated 40 million children in the US), and it was Hindus who invented the caste system. It was the atheist Stalin who butchered 20 million of his own people, and Communism was an atheist movement. We should stick to the faith we believe to be true, or the nonfaith we believe to be true, unless we come to stop believing in that faith or nonfaith. We should be intellectually honest. One thing that should be pointed out is that the amount of violence a religion causes does not make it right or wrong. If radical Islam causes a lot of violence, that doesn't mean that that perspective of Islam is incorrect. If America is the Great Satan, killing me may well be a good deed, and exterminating all Americans may also be a very good deed. However, since we don't view that religious perspective as correct, we can only resist it.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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04-24-2006, 06:28 PM | #147 |
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"It is primarily liberals who are advocating abortion (which has exterminated 40 million children in the US)"
Many things wrong with your statement. First and foremost - fetuses aren't children. Not murder in the least. People on both sides of the spectrum support a woman's right to choose.
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04-24-2006, 09:11 PM | #148 | |||||
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 04-24-2006 at 09:35 PM. |
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04-24-2006, 11:46 PM | #149 |
An enigma in a conundrum
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Please Stay On Topic
THIS IS MUSLIMS
THERE IS A THREAD ON ABORTION SOMEWHERE IF YOU ALL CONSIDER THAT BEFORE POSTING HERE FURTHER, WE WON'T HAVE TO SPLIT OFF THE THREAD. THANKS
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
04-25-2006, 11:23 AM | #150 | |||||
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Thus again: fundamentalism = bad for society. Quote:
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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04-25-2006, 03:47 PM | #151 | |
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And to be a bit more on-topic, do non-Muslims have any say in Muslim society?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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04-25-2006, 05:03 PM | #152 | |
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To put it bluntly, every opinion under the sun can be expressed, including religious ones (even the baby eating one ), but none are endorsed or implemented purely because some book says it what "the man" wants. Prove it's a good policy in the real world and convince the rest of the population. And expect opinions to change about what is and isn't good for society as times change. It's called democracy.
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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04-25-2006, 07:13 PM | #153 | |
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04-25-2006, 07:20 PM | #154 | ||||||
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The more people are convinced they're right, whether they think they're believing in "absolute truth" or not, the more they correspond in behavior and outlook to what you see as fundamentalism. What you're saying is that people should keep an open mind, correct? However, the more people look at evidence, the more people's minds close (on any issue), because they come to conclusions based on that evidence. The only way for people to really keep an open mind is for them to not know anything. Absolute certainty can as easily come from knowledge as from ignorance, and as easily from liberalism or any other perspective as from "fundamentalism". I've seen that, so I know what I'm saying is true. The only way to avoid absolute certainty is to promote absolute ignorance. People get 100% sure of themselves whether they have a scripture or not. I know loads of people who are non-Christians and are as absolutely sure of themselves as they would be if they based their beliefs on a fundamentalist reading of a scripture. That is why in the last couple months I've stopped blaming God for man's ignorance of him. In previous years I thought, naively, "if people only knew all the superb evidence there is about God, they would surely believe!" I still am convinced that the evidence concerning God's existence and nature is extremely strong, but now I have come to see that many, many humans will reject him no matter what. Quote:
If I think that the world is sitting on the back of a giant tortoise rather than orbiting the sun, you have the right to think I'm wrong. If evidence to you suggests that I'm wrong, then think I'm wrong! Meanwhile, if the evidence I see suggests most strongly that you're wrong, I'll believe that you're wrong. We should act on what we believe to be right or wrong in society, just as we should as individuals. Quote:
But right and wrong aren't dependent on what makes people happy. It might make me happy to sit at home being lazy, or greedily exploiting people in other countries for the benefit of me and my society, but does that make it right? If right is simply what works for me, nothing is right or everything is right. "Right" is meaningless, and violence is just fine. If what is "good for human society" is your standard by which right and wrong can be distinguished, what to you is "good for human society," and why should other people think you're right in setting that standard? I am really curious. This post belongs in the Philosophy thread . This is necessary to get into here though also, of course, for the sake of the debate. Quote:
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 04-25-2006 at 10:10 PM. |
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04-25-2006, 09:13 PM | #155 | |||
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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04-26-2006, 12:53 AM | #156 | |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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Of course, I think he was full of it; I mean, come on..."Let's just randomly make this imaginary city, and of course because a city is exactly like a rational soul, there will be exact correlation between the parts of the city and the parts of the soul." *Socrates constructs it so, and then...* "Oh, wow, it worked out! Gee, whoda thunk, huh?" He is so full of it.
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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04-26-2006, 12:55 AM | #157 | ||
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle Last edited by Gwaimir Windgem : 04-26-2006 at 12:57 AM. |
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04-26-2006, 11:08 AM | #158 | ||
Advocatus Diaboli
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You say: "The only way for people to really keep an open mind is for them to not know anything". Not at all. You can have all kinds of personal convictions and still have an open mind. An open mind is not about what you believe to be true. It is about what you allow and accept other people to believe as true. Quote:
The problem with fundamentalists is that they do not have the ability to put themselves in other people's shoes, because the very nature of fundamentalism demands that all people wear the same shoes.
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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04-26-2006, 11:10 AM | #159 | |
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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04-26-2006, 11:56 AM | #160 | |
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