Muslims

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Falagar
When we say terrorist, we are mostly refering to the suicide-bombers. But we never ask why these people blow themselves up. We just assume that they are evil people, who have probably done nothing else all their lives than planning how to hurt innocent people. We forget that they are, in fact, human. Many of them have perhaps lost their brother or father or son or daughter or mother or sister in the war. If someone kills your family or your friends, then you stop think rationally. You want revenge. You want them to suffer, as much as you or your friends have done.
Blowing yourself up is a small price to pay for the pain of your enemies.

Are you familiar with the Madrasas and the text books that they use in much of the Muslim world to teach the students? The Saudi Arabia text books stated that Jews and infidels were their enemies and were to be killed. This is in an elementary school text book that they use to teach the future generations. Only within the last year, from pressure from the US, has this been watered down. How many text books in western schools say to kill people? In the US there are NONE.

I'm not saying that they only teach hate - but a vast population is being taught by fanatical clerics who believe in the destruction of the west and israel. No matter what actions we take - it will be wrong - unless you want to conform to Islam.

No sane person defends Hitler or World War II Germany - but everyone seems willing to defend the Middle East and scream racism when these same things are stated about that part of the world. Hitler had youth camps that indoctrinated chridren into the nazi party - well the fanatical Islamic clerics have the Madrasa's for the same purpose. I see know difference - between Islamic fanatism and Nazi fanatism.

I have the Time Magazine article and I will quote some of the passages they quoted from the books that they found being used in the Saudi Arabian schools.

And it's the same on the other side I guess, the difference being that the Israelis have an army with advanced weapons and use it as a tool to gain revenge instead of suicide-bombings.

The thing is the Israelis aren't seekign revenge - they're trying to capture and kill the bombers and terrorist groups. They're not purposely killing innocent people. As Radagast the Brown pointed out most of the social services including health for the Palestinians is paid for by Israel.

[Falagar]

Are you familiar with the Madrasas and the text books that they use in much of the Muslim world to teach the students? The Saudi Arabia text books stated that Jews and infidels were their enemies and were to be killed. This is in an elementary school text book that they use to teach the future generations. Only within the last year, from pressure from the US, has this been watered down. How many text books in west schools say to kill people? In the US there are NONE.

I'm not saying that they only teach hate - but a vast population is being taught by fanatical clerics who believe in the destruction of the west and israel. No matter what actions we take - it will be wrong - unless you want to conform to Islam.

No, I was not familiar with it. But I think I can guess what sort of people wrote it: Someone having experienced bad jews. If there was peace in the area before the state Israel was made (I think this was mentioned earlier), that textbook must have been new (the last 50 years, at least). People have reasons for their behavior. There are madmen, but I think even they have reasons.

The thing is the Israelis aren't seekign revenge - they're trying to capture and kill the bombers and terrorist groups. They're not purposely killing innocent people. As Radagast the Brown pointed out most of the social services including health for the Palestinians is paid for by Israel.

Why then attack the Palestineans? After having been fighting them for so many years they must have understood that violence doesn't work, the Palestineans won't give up until they're extincted. Let them have their terretories back, at least give them decent living-conditions.

[The last sane person]

ahem. "Madrasas" as it is in english, means nothing more than school. however, the term is also used as a cover up or blanket word for terrorists.

And by the by, i think i will withdraw from this thread as i really dont see the value of comming in and posting when itreally doenst matter. and i always come out of it thinking less of fellow mooters.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by The last sane person
ahem. "Madrasas" as it is in english, means nothing more than school. however, the term is also used as a cover up or blanket word for terrorists.

And by the by, i think i will withdraw from this thread as i really dont see the value of comming in and posting when itreally doenst matter. and i always come out of it thinking less of fellow mooters.

I'm very sorry that you feel that way. Most of the people at Entmoot are very nice folks. Just because people don't share the same opinion on a topic, doesn't make them not nice people. I think except for a few posts, this thread has been discussed fairly intelligently. It is a heated topic. You're going to get some heated opinions. That's what debating is about. Sorry you're leaving the thread. I thought you added to the discussion.

[Radagast The Brown]

originally posted by Falagar
When we say terrorist, we are mostly refering to the suicide-bombers. But we never ask why these people blow themselves up. We just assume that they are evil people, who have probably done nothing else all their lives than planning how to hurt innocent people. We forget that they are, in fact, human. Many of them have perhaps lost their brother or father or son or daughter or mother or sister in the war. If someone kills your family or your friends, then you stop think rationally. You want revenge. You want them to suffer, as much as you or your friends have done.
Blowing yourself up is a small price to pay for the pain of your enemies.

That's not true. Most of the suicide bombers didn't have a killed family relative. And yet, in many times the family does encourage the terrorists to suicide. (not always though. But sometimes the family is even proud of him, which makes me sick)

They are evil. It doesn't mean they were always evil; I think that if they were in a country with better education, like JD said, they wouldn't suicide.

You said that they are humans. Well, in my prespective , they don't act humanely. Even if they killed one of your family, wehy do you have to go into a restaurant and kill innocent people, that had nothing to do with your family relative?
There are Israelis that all of their family (husband/wife, kids, grandparents) was murdered, but they di not want revenge. They wanted peace - to prevent any more cases like their.

And it's the same on the other side I guess, the difference being that the Israelis have an army with advanced weapons and use it as a tool to gain revenge instead of suicide-bombings.

We do not look for revenge. That's the difference between us and the Palestinians.
My mom thought that the best way to prevent any more terror, is to disconnect the autonomy from electricity. I think it's a great idea. Instead of all the bombs and murdered.

[The last sane person]

its not that i didnt expect heat. This is the disscussion i have lived my whole life and i have caught alot of heat for it. And outside the moot things arent so peachy and i dont catch it in verbal only. But if you really want to know what the daily life in my little world was like or you want to get more facts on something, just PM me.

[Radagast The Brown]

originally posted by Falagar

Why then attack the Palestineans? After having been fighting them for so many years they must have understood that violence doesn't work, the Palestineans won't give up until they're extincted. Let them have their terretories back, at least give them decent living-conditions.

So what do you suggest? To stop fighting, and let them act in the autonomy, make more bombs and blow up in Israel?

Originally posted by TLSP
And by the by, i think i will withdraw from this thread as i really dont see the value of comming in and posting when itreally doenst matter. and i always come out of it thinking less of fellow mooters.

Yeah, I understand you. But I don't think you should dislike someone only because of political arguments. I will still like Falagar (not sure he'll like me though ) and everyone else posted during this thread.

[The last sane person]

Alright then, let me refrase that.

I come out thinking that there is less i can talk about without getting into a flame/political bout with them. I have enough flaming politics and America vs. the world around me in my life that i dont really need it here,

[Radagast The Brown]

Originally posted by The last sane person
Alright then, let me refrase that.

I come out thinking that there is less i can talk about without getting into a flame/political bout with them. I have enough flaming politics and America vs. the world around me in my life that i dont really need it here,

Well, politics and Islam are bound together.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Falagar
No, I was not familiar with it. But I think I can guess what sort of people wrote it: Someone having experienced bad jews. If there was peace in the area before the state Israel was made (I think this was mentioned earlier), that textbook must have been new (the last 50 years, at least). People have reasons for their behavior. There are madmen, but I think even they have reasons.

Of course they're recent text books - these were the textbooks they were using LAST year. It's not people having experience with bad jews either. It's a deep hatred. The thing is - these madman as you call them - are their spiritual leaders and the teachers of these students.

Why then attack the Palestineans? After having been fighting them for so many years they must have understood that violence doesn't work, the Palestineans won't give up until they're extincted.

They didn't fight the Palestinians - the terrorist groups declared war on Israel. Israel was working for peace in the 70's with it's neighbors - that's why they have peace with Egypt.

Imagine this - Scandanavia is owned by Britain. The UN and Britain then set up Norway for the Norwegians to live - since they were forced to leave their homeland many hundreds of years ago. They also create Sweden for Swedes to live. Now Finland and Denmark and Germany support Sweden and are outraged that Norway exists - so they attack Norway in the name of Sweden. Natually Norway fights back and is losing badly (it's 3 against 1) - but does eventually win. In the process Norway gains some of the land that was initially given to Sweden in the conflict and keeps it as spoils of war.

Through the years there is repeated conflict in the region. Sweden, Denmark, Finland and Germany all feel that Norway should not exist and the Norwegians should be eliminated. Sweden creates an organization called the PLO whose sole purpose as a political organization is to carry out terrorist attacks on Norway. One of the first is to kidnap and kill in cold blood your olympic team during the Olympic games in Germany. Eventually Norway manages to make treaties with Denmark, Finland and Germany - but the Swedes refuse.

Time goes on - and Norway and Sweden live in a very precarious peace (with basic constant fighting). Many swedes do live and work in Norway and many cross the border into Norway freely - but then suicide bombers start coming over from Sweden to attack Norway. Norway starts setting up road block and check points. (Norwegian settlers do start to move into Sweden which Sweden doesn't like). The terrorist bombings continue to happen. You negotiate - negotiation fall part time after time. Restaurants are being bombed, innocent civilians are being killed in college bombings, bus stops and even during religious ceremonies and Norway goes into Sweden to get the terrorists responsible (who hide among women and children and resential areas). It gets worse and worse and the terrorists keep coming. Finally there is a road map for peace - it seems like things are going smoothly. Sweden gets a PM as required, the bombings stop for a very short time, Norway starts to dismantle checkpoints and settlements. Then in one weekend - three terrorist bombings occur from Sweden. The next week - a bus is blown up as men, women and children are going to school, work, the store and about their daily lives.

Now you tell me what you would want YOUR country to do in the face of the terrorist attacks?

NOTE: The above is just a simplified account of the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians. Do not criticize because I did not put things in. I kept most of the main complaints that either side has against the other - including the Israeli settlements (which I think are wrong).

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by The last sane person
ahem. "Madrasas" as it is in english, means nothing more than school. however, the term is also used as a cover up or blanket word for terrorists.

Yes - but Madrasas are mostly RELIGIOUS schools - and yes - A LOT of them teach hatred. Sorry if you take offense - but is a VERIFIABLE FACT that the fanatical Islamic Clerics use the Madrasas as a way of teaching hate - just like the Nazi's used the Hitler youth camps to teach hatred in the 1930's and 40's.

[Falagar]

Originally posted by Radagast The Brown
[B]That's not true. Most of the suicide bombers didn't have a killed family relative. And yet, in many times the family does encourage the terrorists to suicide. (not always though. But sometimes the family is even proud of him, which makes me sick)

They are evil. It doesn't mean they were always evil; I think that if they were in a country with better education, like JD said, they wouldn't suicide. [B]

They don't need a relative to be killed. A friend's family, or a friend's friend is enough. Only hearing about it is probably enough.

You said that they are humans. Well, in my prespective , they don't act humanely. Even if they killed one of your family, wehy do you have to go into a restaurant and kill innocent people, that had nothing to do with your family relative?
There are Israelis that all of their family (husband/wife, kids, grandparents) was murdered, but they di not want revenge. They wanted peace - to prevent any more cases like their.
We do not look for revenge. That's the difference between us and the Palestinians.
My mom thought that the best way to prevent any more terror, is to disconnect the autonomy from electricity. I think it's a great idea. Instead of all the bombs and murdered.

IIf they killed one of your familymembers you wouldn't care wether they are innocent or not. You stop thinking rational when you loose someone you've known and loved. Especially when it is the 'evil occupants' (from their point of view) who have killed him/her.

I am not sure that they did not want revenge, but I'll take your word for it (btw, have you spoken to any of these people?). And I'm not sure you can say "That's the difference between us and the Palestinians.". There are probably many, many Palestinians who want peace, who don't want revenge. But we seldom hear of them, we only hear of those who take revenge.

'Humanly' is a very curious word, because it doesn't describe how people really are, it describes how most people should be. It's human to kill, or else no human would ever have killed. But it's not nice (a little digression there, sorry). I guess that they don't think of themselves as evil, they think of the Israelis as evil and themselves as good guys.

So what do you suggest? To stop fighting, and let them act in the autonomy, make more bombs and blow up in Israel?

You're sure that will happen if you withdraw and let them out of their refugee camps? I'm not so sure. It hasn't been tested (as far as I know, not for a very long time at least. People need time to forget).

Yeah, I understand you. But I don't think you should dislike someone only because of political arguments. I will still like Falagar (not sure he'll like me though ) and everyone else posted during this thread.

Why shouldn't I like you? Just because you don't agree with me on this subject? If I stopped liking people because they have different opinions than me, I wouldn't have many friends.

I see some of the points you try to make (and some of them are valid), but I think it would be better if you all try to see it from their place as well as your own.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Falagar
You're sure that will happen if you withdraw and let them out of their refugee camps? I'm not so sure. It hasn't been tested (as far as I know, not for a very long time at least. People need time to forget).

Falagar - I have to say this. You really need to watch the news more on this. Israel WAS following the roadmap to peace plan - as was the Palestinians for the most part. As Israel was withdrawing it's troops, while it was dismantling settlements, while it was bulldozing checkpoints - 3 bombings occured in a weekend by Palestinian suicide bombers. How is Israel supposed to withdraw - when as it withdraws - the terrorists continue to attack?

[Falagar]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
[B]Of course they're recent text books - these were the textbooks they were using LAST year. It's not people having experience with bad jews either. It's a deep hatred. The thing is - these madman as you call them - are their spiritual leaders and the teachers of these students.

They feel hatred because they have been brought up to feel hatred because someone back in time has been having bad experiences with jews.

Imagine this - Scandanavia is owned by Britain. The UN and Britain then set up Norway for the Norwegians to live - since they were forced to leave their homeland many hundreds of years ago. They also create Sweden for Swedes to live. Now Finland and Denmark and Germany support Sweden and are outraged that Norway exists - so they attack Norway in the name of Sweden. Natually Norway fights back and is losing badly (it's 3 against 1) - but does eventually win. In the process Norway gains some of the land that was initially given to Sweden in the conflict and keeps it as spoils of war.

But in Norway many Swedes has settled and has been living there for many years. When the Norwegians come, they are forced to leave their homes, to live in some refugee camps. Doesn't seem fair, nor is it a smart move to make friends.

Through the years there is repeated conflict in the region. Sweden, Denmark, Finland and Germany all feel that Norway should not exist and the Norwegians should be eliminated. Sweden creates an organization called the PLO whose sole purpose as a political organization is to carry out terrorist attacks on Norway. One of the first is to kidnap and kill in cold blood your olympic team during the Olympic games in Germany. Eventually Norway manages to make treaties with Denmark, Finland and Germany - but the Swedes refuse.

Time goes on - and Norway and Sweden live in a very precarious peace (with basic constant fighting). Many swedes do live and work in Norway and many cross the border into Norway freely - but then suicide bombers start coming over from Sweden to attack Norway. Norway starts setting up road block and check points. (Norwegian settlers do start to move into Sweden which Sweden doesn't like). The terrorist bombings continue to happen. You negotiate - negotiation fall part time after time. Restaurants are being bombed, innocent civilians are being killed in college bombings, bus stops and even during religious ceremonies and Norway goes into Sweden to get the terrorists responsible (who hide among women and children and resential areas). It gets worse and worse and the terrorists keep coming. Finally there is a road map for peace - it seems like things are going smoothly. Sweden gets a PM as required, the bombings stop for a very short time, Norway starts to dismantle checkpoints and settlements. Then in one weekend - three terrorist bombings occur from Sweden. The next week - a bus is blown up as men, women and children are going to school, work, the store and about their daily lives.

This is all from the Norwegians point of view - we don't get to hear how the Swedes feel.

Now you tell me what you would want YOUR country to do in the face of the terrorist attacks?

Of course I'd want my country to fight back - but that doesn't make it right. Nor does it fix things (as we can observe - the more the Norwegians fight back, the more the Swedes fight back, and the more desperate their means become)

[Falagar]

Falagar - I have to say this. You really need to watch the news more on this. Israel WAS following the roadmap to peace plan - as was the Palestinians for the most part. As Israel was withdrawing it's troops, while it was dismantling settlements, while it was bulldozing checkpoints - 3 bombings occured in a weekend by Palestinian suicide bombers. How is Israel supposed to withdraw - when as it withdraws - the terrorists continue to attack?

Perhaps I do. But if I remember correctly, they attacked because the Israelis were secretly setteling on their land (I may be wrong on this). Anyway, it all needs time. Time will heal all wounds. It's not going to be easy, perhaps there will be many more attacks, but I don't think fighting back will help: It'll only create more hatred.

Edit: I'll have to go to bed now (it's getting early ), but, as the present governor of Calefornia once said: I'll be back.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Nomatter what anybody says Falagar, you're a cool dude.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Falagar
They feel hatred because they have been brought up to feel hatred because someone back in time has been having bad experiences with jews.

Why? What was the holocaust all about? Why did so many Germans just sit by as millions of Jews were taken to the concentration camps? Because of brain washing and propaganda. Remeber - many of the Germans turned in their own neigbors who they had been friends with for YEARS, had eaten dinner together, etc. All of a sudden the Jews were enemies and hated and deserved to die in their minds. So I completely disagree with you that the hatred on the Jews have to do with any personal experience by the Palestinians.

You know what though what you described is the basically the HUGE feud that went on between two families in West Virginia for generations - the Hatfield and the McCoys. It was all over a pig I believe and they only just decided to stop fighting and killing each other.

But in Norway many Swedes has settled and has been living there for many years. When the Norwegians come, they are forced to leave their homes, to live in some refugee camps. Doesn't seem fair, nor is it a smart move to make friends.

I'm not sure when the refuge camps started - as far as I remember - they did not occur until after Syria, Egpyt attacked Israel. They were not there when Israel was created by the UN and Britain.

I know from the many reports here - that Jews and palestinians work side by side in the hospitals and Jews save the livees of Palestinians and Palestinians save the lives of Jews. So your comments about the refuge camp aren't completely true and as i said - If the bombings stopped - the region would be in peace. The BOMBINGS MUST STOP for peace to occur.

This is all from the Norwegians point of view - we don't get to hear how the Swedes feel.

The suicide bombers want Israel destroyed - pure and simple. WHENEVER it comes close to an agreement - they issue renewed and heavier attacks.

If you don't like the version I wrote - then you write the "Swedish" side.

Of course I'd want my country to fight back - but that doesn't make it right. Nor does it fix things (as we can observe - the more the Norwegians fight back, the more the Swedes fight back, and the more desperate their means become)

See - when there is a possibilty of peace - the suicide bombers from "Sweden" attack even harder. The BOMBERS do NOT want peace and will repeatedly do anything to prevent it - but then "Sweden" will not do anything to prevent them either.

[Radagast The Brown]

Originally posted by Falagar
They don't need a relative to be killed. A friend's family, or a friend's friend is enough. Only hearing about it is probably enough.

If hearing about it is enough to suicide, they need a good psychaitrist.

IIf they killed one of your familymembers you wouldn't care wether they are innocent or not. You stop thinking rational when you loose someone you've known and loved. Especially when it is the 'evil occupants' (from their point of view) who have killed him/her.

See? in that case they are just murderers, in my point of veiw, and they take bombs from other "patriots" that think we try to conquer their lands.

I am not sure that they did not want revenge, but I'll take your word for it (btw, have you spoken to any of these people?). And I'm not sure you can say "That's the difference between us and the Palestinians.". There are probably many, many Palestinians who want peace, who don't want revenge. But we seldom hear of them, we only hear of those who take revenge.

I didn't spoke to them privately. And I didn't say all of them said so; or didn't mean that. But they don't go the blow themsleves up, or tell the goverment what to do - they do not revenge.
And you're probably right - but that's just because they want us to stop, not because they don't want our blood to be spilt.

'Humanly' is a very curious word, because it doesn't describe how people really are, it describes how most people should be. It's human to kill, or else no human would ever have killed. But it's not nice (a little digression there, sorry). I guess that they don't think of themselves as evil, they think of the Israelis as evil and themselves as good guys.

humanly is, for me, the way that a civilized person should act like. It doesn't include murdering, or even stealing.

[i]I see some of the points you try to make (and some of them are valid), but I think it would be better if you all try to see it from their place as well as your own.

That would be difficult, because I'm a side in this deabte in real life.

I will have to go too. It's 3:00 AM here.

[jerseydevil]

Here is the TIME excerpt from the Sept 15, 2003 issue which I mentioned above...

Whether Prince Abdullah accepts that there is a cultural problem or just thinks he needs to improve his p.r. with the West, he has begun to address his country's reputation for chauvinism. TV's Channel 1, which like all Saudi media is state controlled, has begund to air a program called War on Terrorism. It has featured footage of the Sept 11 and May 12 attacks as well as old speaches by Saudi leaders urging respect for foreign countries. In an effort to cool the rhetoric in Saudi mosques, authorities say they have arrested nine militant clerics. If any preacher now advocates violence, Foreign Minister Prince Saud al-Faisal told TIME, they are removed immediately." Saudi spokesmen say they have fired 2,000 so far (alll mosque positions are government appointed), although they have declined to produce a list.

...worshippers in Riyadh and Jidda have reported hearing sermons promotng tolerance, denouncing terrorism and warning against radical interpretations of the doctrine of jihad. On a recent Friday, the sermon was mundane at Jidda's Juffali Mosque, which is next to Chop-Chop Square, so called for the work of the executioners who practice there. On the agenda were the importance of good deeds, kind words and the rejection of pagan customs.

Saudis are wondering how long the imams will stay in line. "When they speak about tolerance, the words don't come out easily," says a senior provincial official. "What we are hearing is only a façade. You can smell the disgust they feel in mouthing their new rhetoric." Sometimes it expresses itself plainly. Says Jordan: "We have noticed lately in influential mosques the imam has condemned terrorism and preached in favor of tolerance, then closed the sermon with 'O God, please destory the Jews, and the infidels and all who support them.'"

...Saudi schools have been the subject of scrutiny. Saudi textbooks hae been laced with passages that not only extol the supremacy of Islam but also denigrate nonbelievers. An eigth-grade book states that Allah cursed Jews and Christians and turned some of them into apes and pigs. Ninth-graders learn that Judgement Day will not come "until the Muslims fight the Jews and kill them." A chapter for a 10th-grade class warns Muslims against befriending non-Muslims, saying, "It is compulsory for the Muslims to be loyal to each other and to consider the infidels their enemy."

...Education Minister Mohammed al-Rasheed told TIME that the government had scratched the entire fifth chapter of a 10th-grade text that described how Muslims and non-believers were historical enemies. An excerpt detailing "ways to show hatred to the infidel" charges that "it is forbidden to show happiness during the holidays of the infidels." The minister noted that three Koranic messages encouraging tolerance would be included in Saudi texts. One of them says, "Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for your faith nor to drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them. For Allah loveth those who are just."

Al-Rasheed insists the old curriculum had "nothing to do with people being violent." Still, the modern, globalized world, he says, requires greater acceptance of other cultures. In a speech this week opening the new school year, he plans to tell students, "There is no future for us unless we are tolderant people, cooperating with others and seeking knowledge wherever it is."

[Percy Weasley]

I fear I am perhaps jumping in quite deep with my first post, but I could not help but read this thread, as I consider myself to be quite a political animal (apologies to Aristotle for borrowing his phrase).

They are evil. It doesn't mean they were always evil; I think that if they were in a country with better education, like JD said, they wouldn't suicide.

I must, respectfully, disagree with this.

While I think that the suicide attacks are certainly wrong, and to be condemned by all compassionate human beings on both sides of the issue, these events do not take place in a vacuum. These people, who find their current situation terrible enough that they are willing to make the ultimate sacrifice in what they consider a war for their way of life, are not "evil." To call either side "evil" is to grossly simplify a situation that is complicated beyond imagining, and to attempt to put it into neat little sides of "good" and "evil" when such lables do not fit. What are they, then?

Desperate.

Frustrated.

Caught in a situation that they see as hopeless, and unable to find any way out other than to give their lives to the cause.

If they were on "our" side, we might even consider them to be noble, like Nathan Hale, or any of the other martyrs who have lived through history.

I am not anti-American. I wept with the rest of the world at the deaths of the Firefighters on September 11th, and celebrated as another living person was pulled out of the rubble. I sat glued to my television for an entire week, wondering why humans would do such terrible things to each other.

But I also think it is incredibly naive of Americans to assume that since these people attacked us, they must be "evil." Their actions were evil, that is true. There is no excuse whatsoever for the taking of human life to prove a point.

However, had we ever listened before? For decades we have supported Israel over the Muslim countries in the area for strategic and political reasons, alienating most of the Arab world in the process. We have come in and criticized their culture (not that it doesn't deserve it, but we must look at this from their point of view), and attempted to force our moral values down their throats. Christian missionaries have preached at them with their hell and damnation messages targeted to pull them from their Heathen religion to the Truth and Light. We have treated them as inferiors, ignored their pleas for help, and supported their enemies tirelessly since the need for oil from the region began. It is hardly suprising that they would be angered.

I wish to state again, this does not validate the actions of Bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, or those we would classify as terrorists. Life is sacred, and there are other ways to make a point. But these people are not "evil." They are frightened, frustrated, desperate and brainwashed individuals who believe they can change the world by doing these things. It is sad to me that such passion and dedication can not be channeled into productive instead of destructive avenues.

In closing, I beg members of the board not to flame me on my first post.

Peace to all,
~Percy