Paris Is Burning

[Spock]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

I think this situation could use a peaceful, compassionate, far-thinking leader like Martin Luther King Jr. or Che Guevara. We all need leaders like them, but especially desperate people who do not feel at home in their own country.

You can't put MLK and Che in the same sentence with "compassionate" YOU JUST CAN'T.

[Spock]

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

The only major city areas that have been touched by this are those of Lyon.

Please clarify for me that this isn't your idea of an excuse.

[Spock]

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

The only major city areas that have been touched by this are those of Lyon.

Oh, and that's good?

Sixteen days before that whimp declared an emergency and then only to save his damned Louvre; #$!#$!#@$$@!

[inked]

Originally Posted by Spock

You can't put MLK and Che in the same sentence with "compassionate" YOU JUST CAN'T.

That would be mainly because MLK used Ghandian non-violent approaches and Che used violence.

[Spock]

That is one of the #$!@# non-sequitur reactions I've seen in ages.

[Butterbeer]

are you in a bad mood today spock?

...er... not a problem ... (just seen your pic in the picture link thread) ...er ... not a problem at all MR Spock

I was going to come up with a cunning way of writing them into the same sentence ... but decided not to - .. also because Lotesse will not be too pleased if we get away from the subject too much either!


So, paris and france - the riots - are the french authorities largely to blame?

How much is it just angry young men and a chance to let off steam (and petrol) - or is it the start of anything more?

[Nurvingiel]

Was Che Guevara violent? I am embarassed by my lack of knowledge.

I was still going to defend Che Guevara, but... lack of knowledge. Where's Last Child of Ungoliant? Anyway, this is off-topic now so...


(Is the Louvre in Lyons?)

I am under the impression that declaring a state of emergency was in response to extended rioting. But it does make sense to try to save historical art museums and other national treasures. Losing something incredibly valuable and irriplacable would make the whole situation worse, and every French person would lose.

[Spock]

"The river Temarc, in winter"

[Lotesse]

Who is Che Guevara?

http://www.time.com/time/time100/her...guevara01.html



"You can't put MLK and Che in the same sentence with "compassionate" YOU JUST CAN'T." - Spock

WHY NOT, SPOCK? At the risk of going slightly off the topic of French rioting, I would greatly appreciate a DETAILED reason why you say this, Spock, and I realise you favour quippy one-sentence pat statements to actual explanations, but humour me this time, if you please.

[trolls' bane]

Originally Posted by Lotesse

Who is Che Guevara?

http://www.time.com/time/time100/her...guevara01.html



"You can't put MLK and Che in the same sentence with "compassionate" YOU JUST CAN'T." - Spock

WHY NOT, SPOCK? At the risk of going slightly off the topic of French rioting, I would greatly appreciate a DETAILED reason why you say this, Spock, and I realise you favour quippy one-sentence pat statements to actual explanations, but humour me this time, if you please.

Woah! That one went way over my head! I got some readin' to do!

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

(Is the Louvre in Lyons?)

It's in Paris.

I think is safe to say that the state of emergency was indeed declared as response to the riots and NOT merely to save the Louvre. Frankly, I don't think I can remember the museum was ever in any danger from the riots.

(Although considering the museum holds many items that I would class world enheritage, I'd declare a state of emergency right away if the Louvre WAS threatened. And I wouldn't feel bad about it for a minute. Cars can be replaced, history cannot.)

[Tamuril Sirfalas]

Originally Posted by Butterbeer

hah, thats funny i was just about to tease tamuril what fraction french she was!

ok ..just seen your post there lotesse as i was typing mine ...yeah 8 million from )50- 60M is it??) is an AWFUL lot not to integarte and then wonder whats going on.

btw france is large and with tons of land not built up compared to the uk or germany ...

hey thats harsh...im more british, scottish, irish and spanish than bloody french. i dont really approve of the french right nw. dont be cruel the french right now are being stuck up and arrogant thankyou!!!! but i seriously didnot really take offence it was just harsh. the percent stuff ....dont ask me to split my ancestry up cuze i wont be able to do it!!!!! well i say yay for the british and boo for the french!!@!!!

[Butterbeer]

hardly harsh .... the teasing was just about the fractions ... nothing to do with the french ... was a follow up to the last PM, was all - after rohirrim mentioned fractions there!


just a mild rib! ... a light-hearted josh

so, ...er.. back on subject ...

will anyone here actually care what happens in france when this all dies down and goes down the media agenda?

to me, this is though, endemic of what will happen more and more as tensions between muslims and western society in general are being heightened all the time it seems...

you cannot be soft ... but be too oppresive and you enflame the situation into a vicious circle ...

any easy, ready-to-go answers anyone?

[rohirrim TR]

best case scenario:free beer for everyone!! if france could just set em all up with a round at the bar everthing would die down (figuratively of course).
worst case scenario: free beer for everyone!! it would then become a drunken riotous crowd, and cause even more flammable materials to be used.
seriously though, i wonder if france has tried to make friend with these people, beer would be a good start. or would that be bad, are muslims against alcololic beverages?

[Insidious Rex]

Indeed. 1. Muslims dont drink. 2. France is a wine country for the most part. beer is secondary.

Although in northern France they make some fantastic Saisons...

[rohirrim TR]

I knew it wouldn't work, i thought that muslims had a religious issue with alcohol but i couldn't remember. it seems that they know how to make molitov cocktails pretty well though.

it seems like france has completely ignored this portion of their population and now they don't know what to do.

[inked]

The French who always allege they are on the moral high ground selling arms to Sadaam and anyone else for genocide or whatever. THOSE French would ignore an issue of racism in their own backyard? Surely you jest! I mean they ignored Germany twice already. And they are very moral about US disruptions of their arms sales to dictators. Soooo, you must be very confused about which French it is you are alleging ignored immigrants on racist grounds. It must have just ben the Vichy, don't you think?

[Butterbeer]

Originally Posted by Insidious Rex

Indeed. 1. Muslims dont drink. 2. France is a wine country for the most part. beer is secondary.

Although in northern France they make some fantastic Saisons...

aye, insidious well in northern france they actually make cider as well!


yes, rohirrim they might get peed off if everyone got free beer, except them .. cus they don't (officially) drink it ....

ironically enough as inked infers, (in a general, the french are twits kinda way) it may be their next approach ...

well, inked it's big business for the french (as it is for us and you lot) none of us i think can really take any high moral ground on arms sales ... though for sure the french, if anyone, would probably try it ....

Lotesse - the only problem with these riots being in paris et al, is the french ... they do rather get in the way of this discussion .... TYPICAL!

(sorry!)

[trolls' bane]

I beleive there was an old Russian joke...Let's see...
A Russian man in the street is asked by a TV interviewer, "Do you think things are getting any better here?" "Oh, yes," the man says, "things are definitely getting better...well, maybe not as good as yesterday, but certainly better than tomorrow!"

[Nurvingiel]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

It's in Paris.

I think is safe to say that the state of emergency was indeed declared as response to the riots and NOT merely to save the Louvre. Frankly, I don't think I can remember the museum was ever in any danger from the riots.

(Although considering the museum holds many items that I would class world enheritage, I'd declare a state of emergency right away if the Louvre WAS threatened. And I wouldn't feel bad about it for a minute. Cars can be replaced, history cannot.)

I completely agree. (Even though I didn't know the Louvre was in Paris. Well, I'm sure I knew that, I just forgot.)

And now for some good news from CBC (there are four links in the quoted text). It looks like the riots are dying down.

French violence eases as curbs extended
Last Updated Thu, 17 Nov 2005 06:11:42 EST
CBC News

French police reported fewer incidents of overnight violence Thursday, a day after the country's Senate approved extending state of emergency powers for three more months.

* INDEPTH: Understanding the violence

The measure had been passed earlier by France's lower house of parliament. It takes effect Nov. 21.

Only 98 vehicles were set on fire Wednesday night, compared to 1,400 a night at the height of rioting that broke out on Oct. 27. It was sparked by the death of two teens of African descent and fuelled by frustration and poverty in Paris suburbs populated mostly by immigrant families.

Should the violence break out again, towns and cities will be able to continue imposing curfews and conduct on-the-spot searches until February as a result of the new security measure passed this week.

* FROM NOV. 8, 2005: State of emergency declared in France

About 4,000 people demonstrated against extending the state of emergency in the Place de la Bastille in Paris Wednesday.

Activists and left-leaning politicians called it unnecessary, given that the situation is returning to normal.

Interior Minister Nicholas Sarkozy said that while the emergency powers would be used discerningly and with responsibility, they are needed until order is fully restored.

France has been consumed by more than two weeks of rioting in the immigrant populated neighborhoods of its cities.

* VIEWPOINT: After the rampage

Approval ratings for the hardline minister, who is seen as a possible successor to French President Jacques Chirac, have soared 11 points since the beginning of the three-week crisis.

Sarkozy is now supported by 63 percent of the population, despite controversial comments that some analysts said aggravated the rioting by primarily black and Muslim youth.

The interior minister vowed to rid the riot-plagued Paris suburbs of "scum" and talked of "hosing down" their neighbourhoods.

Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin said earlier this week that the rioters had destroyed 8,500 vehicles and 100 public buildings over the course of the rioting. Police had detained 2,800 people and jailed 600.