08-18-2007, 04:22 PM | #81 | |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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08-18-2007, 10:11 PM | #82 | |
Elf Lord
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No, it doesn't mean that, for example, the Catholic Church would have to accept women priests or recognise gay marriage. Comes down to it, it's basically a situation like you have today (in the USA). People can voluntarily accept beliefs that hold women (or men) to be inferior, but such beliefs have no legal standing. I'm thinking of cases such as the Ontario, Canada attempt to establish "voluntary" sharia civil law arbitration boards. Or the various multiculturalist cases where older conservative males always claim to be the spokesmen for their group and demand the right to impose their values on the rest of their community. Oh, and your kids will be taught (in compulsory education classes) that male and females are totally equal and that neither is subordinate to the other.
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
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08-19-2007, 01:42 AM | #83 | ||
Elf Lord
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A great science fiction book about this is Ursula K LeGuin's "The Dispossessed", an attempt at a communitarian anarchist utopia, and the problems it has dealing with innovators. (A great anarcho-capitalist SF novel is Heinlein's "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress".) OTOH, countries like Sweden and Finland with high equality ratios seem to be doing okay. And the US did all right in the 50s and 60s when the top tax rates were 50-70%, and the pay ratio for CEOs to workers was about 20:1, compared with the 200:1 it is today. I don't think the clowns who've dropped GM to Number 2 and are running Ford into the ground are worth ten times the guys who brought us the Mustang and the Camaro (but then I'm a pony-car freak ) One problem with super-high pay rates is that you get people going into degrees like Law and MBAs simply for the money- any PhD in the natural sciences could get into Law or Business school, and many of them do, simply because of what a scientist makes these days has dropped so far behind. Same with doctors- many go into specialisations instead of general practice because of the financial rewards -and to pay off student debts, which also applies to other fields of study)- while the best and brightest should be going into research anyway. Quote:
Of course, in an open world we'll probably have a brain drain, as many countries do with the US today- but then, we have nice beaches
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
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08-19-2007, 02:45 AM | #84 | ||
Elf Lord
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 08-19-2007 at 02:48 AM. |
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08-19-2007, 12:40 PM | #85 | |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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'Kay, I'm cool with that.
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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08-19-2007, 08:42 PM | #86 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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But, if you look at many European countries with vastly more progressive tax systems then we have, there are still many rich and successful people that thrive within those systems.
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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08-19-2007, 10:49 PM | #87 |
Elf Lord
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BJ, there's nothing preventing you from giving away vastly more progressive amounts of money to causes you think should be supported in this country now. Why wait for the tax to enforce what you know you want to do with your own money in your own country?
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
08-19-2007, 10:56 PM | #88 |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
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BJ- do you itemize on your tax returns?
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08-20-2007, 09:22 AM | #89 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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08-20-2007, 09:24 AM | #90 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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08-20-2007, 09:24 AM | #91 |
Elf Lord
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That's great, BJ. Now, let's ay that you fall into the 99% taxed rate because you have been incredibly successful and the government knows how to spend your earnings best. Still think that your ethical and moral giving is valued? Or is it rendered null and void because you don't do it, but the government does?
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
08-20-2007, 10:03 AM | #92 | |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
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08-20-2007, 11:31 AM | #93 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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08-20-2007, 11:42 AM | #94 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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I don't give them more money then they ask for, but why should I? Depending upon how the tax money was meant to be spent, I am not always against a tax increase of one kind or another, but I see no point in just giving money away with no strings attached, either to the government or a charity program. It's not black and white. There's some things that only a government that taxes it's people can support (i.e. public school, national defense, etc.), while there are other things that function very well purely on optional donation schemes.
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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08-20-2007, 07:00 PM | #95 | ||||
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You only want the robbery to be rubber-stamped ("robbery" is a little harsh) Quote:
It isn't that the Gov't doesnt need money, it's that a lot of things can work far better and more felxible within the individual States' gov'ts.
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ACALEWIA- President of Entmoot hectorberlioz- Vice President of Entmoot Acaly und Hektor fur Presidants fur EntMut fur life! Join the discussion at Entmoot Election 2010. "Stupidissimo!"~Toscanini The Da CINDY Code The Epic Poem Of The Balrog of Entmoot: Here ~NEW! ~ Thinking of summer vacation? AboutNewJersey.com - NJ Travel & Tourism Guide |
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08-20-2007, 11:07 PM | #96 |
Elf Lord
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Hey, we need a Brit to tell us authoritatively what the peak tax bracket is for England.
Memory jogs at 90% for the wildly successful entrepeneurs... but I'm getting a little neuronal crossover these days and I could be misremembering (which is related to being wrong only if you deny the possibility, I think).
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
08-21-2007, 07:05 AM | #97 | |
Elf Lord
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Let me tell you how it will be, There’s one for you, nineteen for me, ‘Cos I’m the Taxman, Yeah yeah, I’m the Taxman. Should five per cent appear too small, Be thankful I don’t take it all, ‘Cos I’m the Taxman, Yeah yeah, I’m the Taxman. (If you drive a car), I’ll tax the street, (If you try to sit), I’ll tax your seat, (If you get too cold), I’ll tax the heat, (If you take a walk), I’ll tax your feet. Taxman. ‘Cos I’m the Taxman, Yeah yeah, I’m the Taxman. Don’t ask me what I want it for (Ah Ah! Mister Wilson!) If you don’t want to pay some more (Ah Ah! Mister Heath!), ‘Cos I’m the Taxman, Yeah yeah, I’m the Taxman. Now my advice for those who die, Declare the pennies on your eyes, ‘Cos I’m the Taxman, Yeah, I’m the Taxman. And you’re working for no-one but me, (Taxman).
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
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08-21-2007, 07:07 AM | #98 |
Elf Lord
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Lief, what happens to apostates on your island, if Christianity is the only allowed religion? Banishment?
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
08-21-2007, 02:09 PM | #99 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
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I haven't thought through punishments for different kinds of crimes. I have thought about what HOBBIT was saying earlier, about guests maybe being arrested, and I've decided I disagree with that. I think that guests would be treated very well whatever religion they adhere to. It would be great if we could bring back some of the ancient culture of hospitality that has existed in the past in the Middle East and still does in some places.
Apostates would be punished in some way. Maybe banishment, maybe something else- I don't know. I know it matters, but I also haven't thought through punishments for all the different crimes. I know that I'm suddenly a wierd specimen, something for people to gawk at because my views are so strange to the modern psyche. That's why I'm getting questions (from BJ, you and HOBBIT so far) about specific punishments I'd have meted out for specific crimes, "crimes" that are presently legal and considered to be wholly acceptable in modern culture. It's a kind of spectator sport, a fascination with the strange, unusual and dangerous. It's very natural. My views will naturally be considered to be dangerous by most here and are so unusual that there is a fascination I have seen. People have that fascination for some bizarre criminals or dangerous zoo animals. I have that fascination for Great White Sharks. I love Great Whites . It's a combination of the unusual and the dangerous that fascinates people in that way. Meanwhile, I view the views most people here hold about religious freedom to be dangerous. However, I'm not fascinated by the idea of religious freedom in spite of the danger I see it as posing, because for me it is not "unusual." I understand the view very well having grown up and reached adulthood holding to it and being surrounded by a culture that holds to it as one of the central pillars that much of its past, present and planned future are established upon.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
08-21-2007, 10:04 PM | #100 |
Elf Lord
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Thanks, GM. That would have been a 95% taxation rate! BJ!
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
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