01-14-2004, 08:24 PM | #81 |
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You think the story is silly? You think people only read Tolkien to escape reality?
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01-14-2004, 08:27 PM | #82 | |
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You know - a person can agree with Eberts opinions on the film without agreeing with his supposed feelings of the books.
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01-14-2004, 08:28 PM | #83 | |||
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And I asked because I DO NOT know who you meant. Quote:
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I do not think the movie was a proper tribute or representation of Tolkien's stories. And I can say this because I am not jealous, nor do I hope for him to fail. I so wanted him to succeed that it was painful to see PJ's work on the screen. |
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01-14-2004, 08:32 PM | #84 | ||
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Why would a Tolkien reader think that 'people only read Tolkien to escape reality'? You are in desperate need of a public flogging. Are you bating me? |
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01-14-2004, 08:39 PM | #85 | |
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Ruinel, you must be kidding around with me, eh?
I'll ignore the "sheep" and "flogging" in the spirit of fun, but... Quote:
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01-14-2004, 08:43 PM | #86 | |
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01-14-2004, 08:44 PM | #87 | ||||||||
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I was originally put off by his apparent lack of knowledge of both the books and the movies, but he does have several worthwhile points to make about the movies: Quote:
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01-14-2004, 08:50 PM | #88 |
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I was moved at many points to tears. I felt a lot of emotional depth and I felt they were very relevant to our times. And everyone else I speak with feels the same. The only place I ever see the opposite opinion is here. I have to conclude that the moot is out of touch with the rest of humanity. I hope people take that in a friendly light. I don't mean it in any derogatory way.
p.s. Nurv, thanks for the kind words. I'll just avoid the thread for a while because I don't want to argue with people. Sorry it came off the other way.
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01-14-2004, 09:02 PM | #89 | ||
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I was looking forward to Lord of the Rings when it was first announced it was being filmed. I am just very disappointed by it and don't like the bait and switch Jackson did from the interviews he gave before they came out - and then the noted difference afterward.
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01-14-2004, 09:21 PM | #90 | ||
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I don't think we're out of touch with humanity, but rather, we don't reflect all "groups" equally. Who would post on a Tolkien message board? Only a die hard fan of the books, movies, or both. Many people here are book fans first, movie fans second.
This leads to a harsher criticism of the movies being posted here than if you were to ask random people on the street what they thought. And, why not? We're, for the most part, knowledgable about Tolkien and enjoy talking about both the books and the movies.
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01-14-2004, 09:27 PM | #91 |
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Elfhelm, if the only place you've ever seen criticism of the films is here, I think you're the one that's out of touch. I've heard Jackson criticised for various things since his first film came out, and many of the complaints I've raised were those I first heard from people who had never read the books.
I was once, as you are still, blinded to the movies by the fact that they were at least based on Tolkien's Middle Earth. I have since gotten over that- it's time some of you did as well.
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01-14-2004, 09:54 PM | #92 | |
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I thought you were like me and disliked the movies from the first time they showed Sauron in that stupid outfit thing and then when merry and Pippin first opened their mouth - when Aragorn pulled out a fully forged sword at bree, or when the Council of Elrond turned into a screaming match, or when ice-Queen galadriel was shown, or the wizards duel, or the birthing of the Uruk-Hai, etc. I felt it was no need to mention Flight to the Ford.
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01-14-2004, 10:19 PM | #93 |
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Oh, to be sure, I saw all those things to start with. But I was blinded by the fact that it was at least loosely based on Tolkien. I wanted it to be good, and so I refused to admit to myself that it wasn't. I tried to convince myself using all the standard things you hear around here (look at them as movies, take it with a grain of salt) and when at the end of several months I couldn't make myself believe that FOTR wasn't a bad movie. So I admitted what, in retrospect, had been obvious all along.
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01-14-2004, 10:25 PM | #94 |
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I saw FotR 8 times in the theater (twice the day it opened, 12:01am and 9:30pm) trying to like it - because it was Lord of the Rings - but my opinion never changed no matter how I much I tried to like the movies.
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01-15-2004, 12:27 AM | #95 | ||
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01-15-2004, 04:42 AM | #96 |
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*pokes Ruinel with a stick, just to see what happens*
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01-15-2004, 11:29 AM | #97 | ||
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i love stephen king too... i love his book "the shining" and i love the movie... both are very different (in fact SK, didn't like kubrick's movie very much because it was so changed)... but i keep the two separate... i would no more say that someone who likes the movie must not be a fan of the book than i would say that someone who hates the movie must be a fan of the book if you want to say that someone who likes PJs films has bad taste in movies, so be it... but, don't judge other's respect and/or dedication to the written works of tolkien unless they are talking about the book Quote:
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01-15-2004, 11:57 AM | #98 | ||||
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It is impossible to look at them completely on their own - if you are a true fan of the books. You may be able to forgive somethings - but it would be impossible to say that one doesn't expect the movies to live up to some standard of the book. Quote:
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01-15-2004, 12:03 PM | #99 |
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I have to say that when FotR first came out I was appalled. I didn't like it in the least. But as the year wore on and EVERBODY else I talked to remarked on how I was too much of a purist and that I should just let things go I relaxed a little. That is, until TTT came out. I was appalled by TTT, but at the same time it made me appreciate what Jackson had done in FotR a little bit more. I didn't fall for the spectacle in TTT at all. I thought a lot of it was unnecessary and wrong. Not that I didn't enjoy the battles or the little 'extras' but as a whole the mood was just too different.
And as for Rotk I of course had to see it. I have to say of the three it was both the best and worst. Best because it obviously brought so many things to a close and finished the story. Because of this it only makes sense that there should be a lot of emotion involved. Worst because it also forgot to do a lot of things. I understand the time constraints in a movie but nonetheless some parts still seemed inconclusive. Also, enough of the feeling was changed as to stir slightly different emotions, or even confusion. I must admit that if I didn't read the books a lot of what I felt wouldn't be there as strongly. Only because I knew what I was supposed to feel was I able to feel it during the movies. For instance, looking back from a movie perspective, the very ending where Frodo leaves would not have held as much emotion if I had not read the books. There were still questions to be answered in regards to that little piece. Like why exactly he was allowed and where exactly he was going. (One would hope that this would be enough to spark a layperson's interest in the books) But this curiosity would infect the pure emotion that was supposed to be felt, and erode it into something significantly less in my eyes. So in conclusion it's hard for anyone to separate books from movies from an emotional standpoint, but the separation is very very apparent from a literary standpoint. This is where I think a lot of the confusion lies. People understand that they are two different entities on an outer level without really exploring the subtle shifts on the emotional level. It's harder to do that I think because the emotions have become part of us through reading so it's hard to look at the movies with a clean slate in that respect. On another note about Ebert's remark: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There is little enough psychological depth anywhere in the films, actually, and they exist mostly as surface, gesture, archetype and spectacle. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Didn't Tolkien create or 'renew' many of the archetypes within the fantasy genre? I thought it was mostly due to his characters that their personalities became archetypal in many later works of the genre.
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01-15-2004, 12:16 PM | #100 |
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it's not impossible to keep the movies and the books separate... it is impossible for you to keep the books and the movies separate... i was hoping that you could learn to accept the fact that some people are different in the way they appreciate a creative work and its interpretations, even if you cannot understand this POV (see my sig)
allow people to express there likes and dislikes without attacking their integrity, either directly or implicitly... flame the film, not the poster btw - good point on archetypes Anglorfin, i think most people forget how much tolkien had to do with bringing those mythological archetypes back into the literary world
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