CAN you BELIEVE the pit i live in???!!

[Coney]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Gee Coney, I thought that the US and Britian were on the same side.

Politically yes,.......but there is still a lot of anti-war feeling in the UK *shrugs* I think a lot of Brits are really confused at the mo'........our hearts say "support the troops" but our heads say "why the hell are our troop there?".

It's not, after all, as if America needs our troops to be there (although I'm sure no-one would complain if america got into trouble and we helped out), still, Blair decided to play his cards that way....only the next election will let him know if he played them the right way. Also a lot of people are feeling really stabbed in the back as Bush hands out contracts (for after the invasion) to all his old cronies.........Thank anything that Blair has the humanitarian arguement as justification for all this, or their would be some real riots here

[Sister Golden Hair]

Sister- Nope, Blair is on the Us's side, not the majority of Britain.....

That may well be, but it is happening nomatterwhat. Support your troops, and ours.

[Phooka]

Yeh have a bite.

Just because people don't believe in the "cause" doesn't mean they want people to die...

[Coney]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
That may well be, but it is happening nomatterwhat. Support your troops, and ours.

Well, if they have to fight, I hope they fight well and come back safe.........hell, I'd like nothing better than to see the entire Iraq' army throw down their weapons tommorrow so nobody else gets killed (unfortuneatly it doesn't look like it's going to happen).

One of the big shocks here was when a couple of our ships left for the Gulf...........normally when our lads and lasses leave for battle (falklands, bosnia etc) there are thousands at the docks cheering them off........all there was this time was crying wives, mothers etc.

The poor troops must have felt very dejected

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Coney
Well, if they have to fight, I hope they fight well and come back safe.........hell, I'd like nothing better than to see the entire Iraq' army throw down their weapons tommorrow so nobody else gets killed (unfortuneatly it doesn't look like it's going to happen).

WOW - we actually agree on something in an "iraq" thread. The world will end now.

One of the big shocks here was when a couple of our ships left for the Gulf...........normally when our lads and lasses leave for battle (falklands, bosnia etc) there are thousands at the docks cheering them off........all there was this time was crying wives, mothers etc.

The poor troops must have felt very dejected

That isn't the way it is here - although there is still plenty of crying. But then 65+% support the war here. I think actually it has gone to 70% now - but I can't remember.

[Coney]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
WOW - we actually agree on something in an "iraq" thread. The world will end now.

You've got a bad memory.......I said something similar in the Iraq thread before the invasion even started

That isn't the way it is here - although there is still plenty of crying. But then 65+% support the war here. I think actually it has gone to 70% now - but I can't remember.

Ach, I've lost all faith in opinion polls (not that I never had much, I ain't ever been asked take part in one)......if a battle is won, the opinion polls shoot up, if the war is stalled for another day then the opinion polls drop...........it makes you wonder who's opinion they are actually asking if the fact that the poor buggers are bogged down in a sandstorm actually makes them re-think their whole attitude to the war

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Coney
You've got a bad memory.......I said something similar in the Iraq thread before the invasion even started

You expect me to remember that long ago? The war has been going on for 9 days and already people are acting like it's been going on for months. My mond has been on other things anyway.

Ach, I've lost all faith in opinion polls (not that I never had much, I ain't ever been asked take part in one)......if a battle is won, the opinion polls shoot up, if the war is stalled for another day then the opinion polls drop...........it makes you wonder who's opinion they are actually asking if the fact that the poor buggers are bogged down in a sandstorm actually makes them re-think their whole attitude to the war

Well that's the way people are- that's why the US government is set up the way it is. It was set up to prevent the whipsaw you would get if it didn't have the checks and balances and instead went by the whim of the people.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally posted by Coney
hell, I'd like nothing better than to see the entire Iraq' army throw down their weapons tommorrow so nobody else gets killed

Wouldn't we all love that?

[Hasty Ent]

Coney: "Ach, I've lost all faith in opinion polls (not that I never had much, I ain't ever been asked take part in one)......if a battle is won, the opinion polls shoot up, if the war is stalled for another day then the opinion polls drop...........it makes you wonder who's opinion they are actually asking if the fact that the poor buggers are bogged down in a sandstorm actually makes them re-think their whole attitude to the war"

Too true. Also, you can anticipate the answer to a poll depending upon how you phrase the question. Don't trust polls any more than I trust our media or our government. After all, they're all looking out to get the results they want, aren't they? Higher television ratings, advertising dollars, votes, it's all the same goal.

[Coney]

You expect me to remember that long ago? The war has been going on for 9 days and already people are acting like it's been going on for months.

This is not directed at you JD (doesn't mean I don't want you to respond if ya feel like it tho').

The war has been going on for only 9 days!! And people are in an uproar about it! (sheesh, it took God 7 days to make the world, mind you, he did have a day off). I think the media, not to mention Donald Rumsfeld (arsehole) has a lot to answer for here. Pretending that the invasion was going to be a walkover was just wrong. No battle can be fully planned, no one know's exactly how it is going to be fought until they actually start fighting.......I was reading today about how a lot of Marines are complaining about the fighting conditions (not to mention lack of food and gas supplies)...how they were totally unprepared for how the war is panning out, and I can't blame them.IMO there has been some serious lapses in how both the troops and the public have been led to beleive "how the invasion will be won".

I do feel sorry for the troops, the Iraq' people want rid of Saddam, trouble is a lot of them have very sore memories of 12 yrs ago when the allies let them down and alllowed Saddam to practice his genocide, the people want to be liberated, but not necessarily by the US.........I can't really blame them for that:/

[Lizra]

Well.......and people form their opinions based on the weird stuff the media feeds them! If I'm shown a steady diet of beaten POW's and crying families, I'll want to vote no. If I'm shown a steady diet of Saddam's torture and terror, I'll want to vote yes....Emotional humans are pretty easy to manipulate. Yes, polls are whacky!

[Gwaimir Windgem]

To Coney:

6 days, actually.

[Coney]

Originally posted by Hasty Ent
Too true. Also, you can anticipate the answer to a poll depending upon how you phrase the question. Don't trust polls any more than I trust our media or our government. After all, they're all looking out to get the results they want, aren't they? Higher television ratings, advertising dollars, votes, it's all the same goal.

Yup, any of us could spend ten minutes browsing the news and come up with a dozen different polls with a dozen different answers

I think the propaganda (on both sides) has been just stupid, obviously pandering to the brain-dead public, hell, half of it is just an insult to our intelligence.

We know what war is like...........history has very carefully recorded all of it's horrors..........I wonder why it is now being treat less like a daily struggle and more like a bleedin' Rambo movie?

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Hasty Ent
Too true. Also, you can anticipate the answer to a poll depending upon how you phrase the question. Don't trust polls any more than I trust our media or our government. After all, they're all looking out to get the results they want, aren't they? Higher television ratings, advertising dollars, votes, it's all the same goal.

Must be h*ll trying to go through life without trusting anything.

You can be intelligent and make your own mind up about polls. Scientifically conducted polls can usually be pretty accurate. Gallup - is one of the largest polling companies in the US and they're located down the street from me in Princeton. I think they're website - Gallup - has information on how polls are conducted.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Coney
Yup, any of us could spend ten minutes browsing the news and come up with a dozen different polls with a dozen different answers

Most polls have a margin of error - and most if they're asking the same thing - will reflect the same numbers. it is true however with how they word the question. A good poll won't have a leading "question" though.

I think the propaganda (on both sides) has been just stupid, obviously pandering to the brain-dead public, hell, half of it is just an insult to our intelligence.

You're obviously watching it though.

We know what war is like...........history has very carefully recorded all of it's horrors..........I wonder why it is now being treat less like a daily struggle and more like a bleedin' Rambo movie?

I don't think it is being treated as a rambo movie. The only things they have show with any real action was the bombing of Baghdad. True the one night - in the vey beginning of the war they had 4 hour standoff. I think the media learned though that bad things can happen and if they're showing it live - there is no telling what may end up showing. Now it's mostly analysis and interviews.

[Coney]

You're obviously watching it though.

Actually I havn't watched it much since the "American Prisoners" incident. I don't know what kind of coverage that got in the states but here it was just pathetic (ITV if I remember rightly). We were basically informed that video of the American prisoners had been released, they weren't willing to show us the video, but we did get a dozen stills from the video........I know what frightened people look like, I also know that those same people will be tortured and executed. Either show the damned video, or report the incident without pictures.........Those poor folks families.....gods, there are some insensitve bastards in the media. The very next news item was "50 Iraqi soldiers killed in battle"....what pictures did we see? Coalition troops firing their weapons, oh and a tank giving artillery cover

I don't think it is being treated as a rambo movie. The only things they have show with any real action was the bombing of Baghdad. True the one night - in the vey beginning of the war they had 4 hour standoff. I think the media learned though that bad things can happen and if they're showing it live - there is no telling what may end up showing. Now it's mostly analysis and interviews

Well that's good. Why the hell there are reporters and cameramen with front line troops is just beyond me (don't they realise that the soldiers have better things to do than protect their ghoulish arses (only ghouls profit from the dead).

The British troops are starting to lose their patience with the newscrews.........one commander (who's name I forget) is starting to demand that they are sent back to base(s).

As for Bagdad itself........christ! there was a reporter in Bagdad, reporting while missiles were exploding [i]1 mile[/1] away from him!......wtf is he doing in the middle of Bagdad????..........We [i]know[i] what a bleedin' exploding missile looks like......there are a million ways to tell exactly where it hit...do we really need a civilian taking the risk of being blown to smithereens to tell us this???.......somehow I think not

hmmm.........I'm beginning to remember why I don't enjoy discussion the actual war.........the whole thing is just so, unbelievable.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally posted by Coney
gods, there are some insensitve bastards in the media.

(only ghouls profit from the dead).

Yeah, that's sure no joke. Media people so often are total jerks, only concerned with getting the fricken story.

You forgot necromancers.

[Sister Golden Hair]

You know what, I can't wait until all is said and done. People are so stupid, and it is nice to be able to say: I told you so. OMG, wake up people and think about what you are defending.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Sorry, SGH, but being, as we all know (but JD won't admit ) halfwitted, I never have figured out your opinion on the war. How do you stand?

[Coney]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
You know what, I can't wait until all is said and done. People are so stupid, and it is nice to be able to say: I told you so. OMG, wake up people and think about what you are defending.

who's defending what? I thought the discussion was about opinion polls and media coverage of the invasion.