01-13-2004, 05:12 PM | #61 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Millane - I'll get to yours later. I've said all my stuff repeatedly from FotR - you can go into all the threads and read all my comments.
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01-13-2004, 07:02 PM | #62 | |
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01-14-2004, 12:30 AM | #63 | |
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1. Why do you not think PJ is a Tolkien fan? (and no the movies don't count as a reason) 2. Where did PJ say his sole goal for lord of the rings was a "cool action fantasy film"? if you could just answer those two ill be appreciative...
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01-14-2004, 03:35 AM | #64 | |
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Well, they didn't really touch on that in RotK, but I thought it was sufficiently dealt with in TTT. Elrond's voiceover during Arwen's vision of Aragorn's tomb and all that. I'm rather partial to that scene myself. It is by far a better development of Arwen's character than the flight to the ford. |
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01-14-2004, 02:37 PM | #65 | ||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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He liked the STORY - he was not a "TRUE fan" as he claimed in the beginning. Quote:
See - I don't care WHAT he claims in interviews. He can claim anything he wants - it's his actions and what he has produced that show me that he had no real love for Lord of the Rings. He cut out Scouring of the Shire - didn't even film it because he hated that part. If he was a TRUE fan - he would not have butchered thew Flight to the Ford scene. He would have kept the story much close to Tolkien's original - instead of trying to invent all his own stuff. Why is Aragorn suddenly running from his heritage? Why is the movie so action centric? Why does the movie revolve so much around the humans - and in particular Aragorn and Arwen - because he wasn't a fan of the ORIGINAL story. He kept the base (destruction of the Ring) and created his own and slapped the title Lord of the Rings - so he would have a ready made audience for the thing. Then he went out on interviews saying how he couldn't change this or that because the fans would kill him. The fans trusted him - because they wanted to. Then when it wold come back to him that fans were pissed off about things - he always had ready made reasons. It's all typiucal PR and bull ****. My sister worked in Hollywood PR - I know how this crap works.
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01-14-2004, 04:56 PM | #66 |
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as i've said in the past i don't really care if someone likes the movies or not... but it has absolutely nothing to do with whether one is a "true tolkien fan" or not... and this goes for PJ too... he brought the film to the big screen as he saw fit... he did some things well, others not so well
he gave some inaccurate info in interviews... did you ever think that maybe the actors lied to him about reading the books so they would get the part? is one not a fan if they can't score a 99.9 on a tolkien trivia test? LOTR is by far my favorite set of books... PJs movies are among my favorites... in as much that i've watched them more than twice... which i can probably only say about fifty or so movies trash the movies as you like JD... but you have no right to judge whether someone else, anyone else, is a fan of the books or not just because of how knowledgeable they are about the books or how they choose to interpret them
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01-14-2004, 05:20 PM | #67 | ||||
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I wonder how many people would be calling him a fan if he did have Arwen at Helm's Deep like he originally planned. Oh - and I WILL judge his lies on what they were and I will judge how much of fan he is.
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01-14-2004, 05:31 PM | #68 |
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ok... so is someone who enjoyed the film also not a TRUE fan of the books in your opinion?
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01-14-2004, 06:34 PM | #69 |
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Hopefully this thread will get back to Roger Ebert at some tmie. We all know about how much some people here hate PJ. "Hate was the pallbearer" if you take my meaning. Hopefully they won't go off and seek psychotic fame by "killing him" as they have often suggested in other threads.
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01-14-2004, 07:06 PM | #70 |
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in terms of ebert's review i think he misses the point of epic fantasy that so many, especially adults, do... i also feel that he is not just knocking the film, but the whole fantasy genre... film or written
i heard a fantasy author on npr the other day speak about fantasy as being the oldest form of storytelling... myths, religious traditions, folklore... they allow one too examine the big-picture-type themes that are tough to get across in more "real-world" stories where people tend to focus more upon the day to day of the characters... the author mentioned how adults would often speak of there confusion with fantasy novels due to all the foreign names, places and such... yet a ten-year-old had no problem following every point of the story his point, which i think is valid, was a matter of attention span... children are more willing, and have more time, to immerse themselves in these kinds of things... while adults have an easier time with something where they don't have to think too much... the surroundings and characters are basically what they already know, they only have to follow the plot i find ebert's comment about it being somewhat cartoonish as funny (especially with finding nemo at #4 on his list)... some of the best social commentary i've ever seen has been through cartoons from the simpsons to the lion king
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01-14-2004, 07:22 PM | #71 | |
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01-14-2004, 07:25 PM | #72 | |
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01-14-2004, 07:27 PM | #73 | |
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01-14-2004, 07:46 PM | #74 | |
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01-14-2004, 07:50 PM | #75 | |
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01-14-2004, 07:56 PM | #76 | |||
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Elfhelm could just be referring to a general feeling he gets, not any one person's comment. I get the feeling he never intended to offend anyone.
Ebert's review made me wonder why he is regarded as a great movie critic. (He is often quoted by newspapers... but why? Maybe he does his research on the other movies he reviews.) I've already mentioned reasons why I don't like his review. On a more detailed level, I was thinking about the implications of this sentence: Quote:
That is probably too positive of a spin to put on it, since elsewhere he indicates to me that he hasn't read the books very thoroughly.
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01-14-2004, 07:58 PM | #77 |
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You only seek clarification because you want something concrete to flame me about. If you don't know what I meant, I don't think you ever will. But I think you do. I think you just like to fight.
This thread is supposed to be about Ebert's review. I think it's only typical of this site that one or two people can't get over the fact that LotR is successful even though they don't like it and they turn every thread into a fight with anyone who likes it. Here's a quote from a George song, if it means anything to you: "Still the crowds came pouring in Some had hoped to see him fail Filling their hearts with jealousies Crazy people with love so frail." It means everything to me. Now can we get back to Ebert?
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01-14-2004, 08:04 PM | #78 | ||
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I don't really care if you don't like my comments - I would hang jackson up by his toes given the chance. Happy? Oh - and I think he should be drawn and quartered too. Quote:
You know - Titanic was a pretty forgettable, cliched film - it did very well in the theaters though and made tons of money. How many people consider it a classic?
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 01-14-2004 at 08:09 PM. |
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01-14-2004, 08:07 PM | #79 | ||
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My post is off-topic Elfhelm, but it should be pointed out that if you really wanted this thread to get back on track, you should have replied to my comments on Ebert's review.
Secondly, I stuck up for you, and you're damaging my efforts by completely asking for a flame in your very first comment. The best way to avoid getting flamed is to let someone else divert the discussion, and not to make any comments. It is not necessary to respond to this post here, but anyone is free to PM me, and I promise to reply. To continue with the discussion, see my previous post. Edit : Cross-posted with JD.
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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01-14-2004, 08:19 PM | #80 |
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Back on topic.
I happen to agree with the majority of what Ebert said in his critique of the movies. |
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