Iraqis Forgive Americans

[Radagast]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
Well for one thing - war is not a crime in itself. Also - to consider it a crime against god - I guess one would have to believe in god.

As for your comment indicating that the Allies were just as much in the wrong in going to war against the Axis powers - I suppose the execution of millions of innocent people, the destruction and bombing of NUMEROUS countries by Japan and Germany was just fine with you - as long as we didn't get involved. Sometimes war is necessary - it would be nice if it wasn't - but sometimes it is. To believe otherwise is very naive and wishful thinking.

You've missed his point, he was pointing out that there were war criminals on the Allied side, not just the Axis.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Radagast
You've missed his point, he was pointing out that there were war criminals on the Allied side, not just the Axis.

That isn't what he said - he said that war in itself was a crime against god and humanity and therefore a war crime in itself.

What is a war criminal? Was not war itself a crime against God and humanity, and, therefore, were not all those who sanctioned, engineered,and conducted wars, war criminals?

Explain to me how his statement above supports your belief that he is saying that war crimes were committed on both sides.

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
That isn't what he said - he said that war in itself was a crime against god and humanity and therefore a war crime in itself.


Explain to me how his statement above supports your belief that he is saying that war crimes were committed on both sides.

My point was there is no such thing as a war criminal, everyone involved in the war (directly or indirectly) was just as guilty. The countires who watched Hitler invade countires and did nothing are just as guilty for letting it happen. The United States dropped two atomic bombs, were we ever considered war criminals? Show me what trial and who was convicted for the dropping of the atomic bombs which resulted in the death of hundreds of thousands of Japanese civilians. Many of Hitler's generals etc... were convicted of war crimes. Do you see what I'm saying?

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
Well for one thing - war is not a crime in itself. Also - to consider it a crime against god - I guess one would have to believe in god.

As for your comment indicating that the Allies were just as much in the wrong in going to war against the Axis powers - I suppose the execution of millions of innocent people, the destruction and bombing of NUMEROUS countries by Japan and Germany was just fine with you - as long as we didn't get involved. Sometimes war is necessary - it would be nice if it wasn't - but sometimes it is. To believe otherwise is very naive and wishful thinking.

Your assumptions are way off, the execution of millions of people is not "fine" with me.

[Beor]

Originally posted by Ragnarok
My point was there is no such thing as a war criminal, everyone involved in the war (directly or indirectly) was just as guilty. The countires who watched Hitler invade countires and did nothing are just as guilty for letting it happen. The United States dropped two atomic bombs, were we ever considered war criminals? Show me what trial and who was convicted for the dropping of the atomic bombs which resulted in the death of hundreds of thousands of Japanese civilians. Many of Hitler's generals etc... were convicted of war crimes. Do you see what I'm saying?

Well, if I am a war criminal then Iam a war criminal. You can think what you want dude, but if I ever come over for a beer, try not to mention your opinion stated here.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Ragnarok
My point was there is no such thing as a war criminal, everyone involved in the war (directly or indirectly) was just as guilty. The countires who watched Hitler invade countires and did nothing are just as guilty for letting it happen. The United States dropped two atomic bombs, were we ever considered war criminals? Show me what trial and who was convicted for the dropping of the atomic bombs which resulted in the death of hundreds of thousands of Japanese civilians. Many of Hitler's generals etc... were convicted of war crimes. Do you see what I'm saying?

Dropping of the atomic bomb was to save the lives of many more thousands. There were THREE warnings telling the japanese to surrender - they chose not to. They made their choose when they chose to surprise attack Pearl Harbor. Nagasaki and Harosimo were also BOTH military cities - they were not just civilians - but they were manufacturing weaponry for the Japanese army. Many millions died in the overthrow of Germany.

It's funny how you say that the countries who let Hitler start up his concentration camps are just as guilty of war crimes - then I guess the countries, such as France who wanted to let Hussein continue his execution and torture - are just as guilty of war crimes. or are you saying that Hitler's only mistake was invading other countries - but as long asa he just killed the jews within Germany - it was okay and we should not have fought him.

[Radagast]

On reflection, this is irrelevant.

[Fenir_LacDanan]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
It's funny how you say that the countries who let Hitler start up his concentration camps are just as guilty of war crimes - then I guess the countries, such as France who wanted to let Hussein continue his execution and torture - are just as guilty of war crimes. or are you saying that Hitler's only mistake was invading other countries - but as long asa he just killed the jews within Germany - it was okay and we should not have fought him.

It even funnier how Americans are now offering themselves as the "first in" to wars. You lot most certianly were not first in to WW1 in which millions died, and America only declared war in 1917, and put troops in the field in March 1918. You missed the entire bloody war!

A fun stat for all the kids is to note that the great and heroic US Army lost more men during the great war to Influenza than german bullets. Belgium and Australia lost many more, and they were in it from the outset.

WW2, the greatest ever war, saw the Americans enter at the end of 1941.
"But Fenir," asks little Timmy, "didnt WW2 start in September 1939?"

"Well yes, little Timmy, apparently out American friends were late to the party again..."

Thats over two years that America sat on the fence, and only after the Japs got rowdy did the US get of its backside and enter the fray. Leading the way? America has a history of isolationist polices that go back a century.

Say what you want about the French, (believe me, I do), but they fought in wars you didn't what to know about until yours were endangered.


[FLAMEBAIT DELETED]

Last edited by Sister Golden Hair

[Radagast]

Originally posted by Fenir_LacDanan
It even funnier how Americans are now offering themselves as the "first in" to wars. You lot most certianly were not first in to WW1 in which millions died, and America only declared war in 1917, and put troops in the field in March 1918. You missed the entire bloody war!

A fun stat for all the kids is to note that the great and heroic US Army lost more men during the great war to Influenza than german bullets. Belgium and Australia lost many more, and they were in it from the outset.

WW2, the greatest ever war, saw the Americans enter at the end of 1941.
"But Fenir," asks little Timmy, "didnt WW2 start in September 1939?"

"Well yes, little Timmy, apparently out American friends were late to the party again..."

Thats over two years that America sat on the fence, and only after the Japs got rowdy did the US get of its backside and enter the fray. Leading the way? America has a history of isolationist polices that go back a century.

Say what you want about the French, (believe me, I do), but they fought in wars you didn't what to know about until yours were endangered.

[FLAMEBAIT DELETED]

[Elvengirl]

Originally posted by Fenir_LacDanan
It even funnier how Americans are now offering themselves as the "first in" to wars. You lot most certianly were not first in to WW1 in which millions died, and America only declared war in 1917, and put troops in the field in March 1918. You missed the entire bloody war! ..............

I know you are waiting for JD's reply, but....where in History books do they say Americans were the first in the wars? I was never educated with that data. Your statement is the first time I've heard such a statement.

[Sister Golden Hair]

ADMINISTRATIVE WARNING- I will not be as lenient or as patient in this thread as I was the last one, with the flaming and flamebaiting. This will be the only warning issued. Any further violations will result in the immediate closure of this thread along with a warning and other possible administrative action taken against the violator/s/.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Fenir_LacDanan
It even funnier how Americans are now offering themselves as the "first in" to wars. You lot most certianly were not first in to WW1 in which millions died, and America only declared war in 1917, and put troops in the field in March 1918. You missed the entire bloody war!

A fun stat for all the kids is to note that the great and heroic US Army lost more men during the great war to Influenza than german bullets. Belgium and Australia lost many more, and they were in it from the outset.

WW2, the greatest ever war, saw the Americans enter at the end of 1941.
"But Fenir," asks little Timmy, "didnt WW2 start in September 1939?"

"Well yes, little Timmy, apparently out American friends were late to the party again..."

Thats over two years that America sat on the fence, and only after the Japs got rowdy did the US get of its backside and enter the fray. Leading the way? America has a history of isolationist polices that go back a century.

Say what you want about the French, (believe me, I do), but they fought in wars you didn't what to know about until yours were endangered.

Fenir - the thing is BOTH were European wars. As for your comment regarding World War II - we were SUPPLYING munitions and so forth to the allies for a long time. The American public was 70% AGAINST getting involved in the World War II - we already had 100,000+ men die in World War I. That was, as you just point out, only 20 years between the two.

As for the US isolationist policy - no one denies America's isolationist policy of the past - as a matter of fact - we learn about it in history believe it or not. After World War II - we realized that the Europeans were incompentent at keeping the peace between them - and that we could not be isolationsist anymore. So unlike in World War I - where we developed the League of Nations - but then didn't join, this time we created the United Nations and did join.

You complain that we're isolationist, then you complain that we're all over the world. At least we ARE doing something about the Middle East - unlike the European attitude - that if you ignore it - it will go away - just like they did in World War II. How many years my dear fenir was Hitler building his armies, setting up his camps, taking land and countries - before Europe bothered to lift a finger. Before you point at us for not doing anything right away - when we didn't have to anything to help - maybe you should ask what you gusy did to help yourself first.

Obvouisly to you - the 400,000+ AMERICANS who died during World War II - doesn't mean anything.

Oh and another thing - my grandfather supposedly fought in BOTH your damn wars. He supposedly lied about his age to get into World War I.

Also you seem to forget that until basically a short time before World War I - we were NOT a allies or friends with Britain. Britain ACTIVELY supported the south during the Civil War only 50 years before.

As for the French - 1/3 supported German occupation, 1/3 didn't care about the German occupation and ONLY 1/3 actively tried to help overthrow the Gemans.

[QueenAnnesLace]

Originally posted by Fenir_LacDanan
It even funnier how Americans are now offering themselves as the "first in" to wars. You lot most certianly were not first in to WW1 in which millions died, and America only declared war in 1917, and put troops in the field in March 1918. You missed the entire bloody war!

A fun stat for all the kids is to note that the great and heroic US Army lost more men during the great war to Influenza than german bullets. Belgium and Australia lost many more, and they were in it from the outset.

WW2, the greatest ever war, saw the Americans enter at the end of 1941.
"But Fenir," asks little Timmy, "didnt WW2 start in September 1939?"

"Well yes, little Timmy, apparently out American friends were late to the party again..."

Thats over two years that America sat on the fence, and only after the Japs got rowdy did the US get of its backside and enter the fray. Leading the way? America has a history of isolationist polices that go back a century.

Say what you want about the French, (believe me, I do), but they fought in wars you didn't what to know about until yours were endangered.


[FLAMEBAIT DELETED]

Last edited by Sister Golden Hair

Who said that America offers themselves as the "first"? Yes, the U.S.A. declared war in 1917, and were there (in France) by June the same year.

As for WW2,we declared war on Japan right after Pearl Harbor, and 3 days later Germany declared war on us. Besides Japan, what reason did we have of being in it sooner?

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Elvengirl
I know you are waiting for JD's reply, but....where in History books do they say Americans were the first in the wars? I was never educated with that data. Your statement is the first time I've heard such a statement.

He just wants to be his same old self - where nothing he says is based on facts - just his personal hatred toward America, Americans - and particularly me. It's quite obvious that his flamebate was directed at me - as are most of his posts.

[QueenAnnesLace]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
he just wants to be he same old self - where nothing he says is based on facts - just his personal hatred toward America, Americans - and particularly me. It's quite obvious that his flamebate was directed at me - as are most of his posts.

[EDITED] FOR QUOTING DELETED FLAMEBAIT He could even possibly be a worthy opponent if he stuck to the facts.

As for all this war talk I would love to know what version of this and any war history books he is reading from, if he is at all. And as for other wars the U.S. has been involved in even when it had nothing to do with us, I'm comfident that they wouldnt have ended as soon, if at all, if we hadn't stepped in. Damn nosey Americans!

Last edited by Sister Golden Hair

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by QueenAnnesLace
As for all this war talk I would love to know what version of this and any war history books he is reading from, if he is at all.

He reads the same book that Coney reads and gets his American History knowledge from - "Blame America First - The Abridged European History Series". The book must be back in print - or maybe it's just standard reading in the European educational system.

For interesting reading - you can always read the old Iraq thread.

[Coney II]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
He reads the same book that Coney reads and gets his American History knowledge from - "Blame America First - The Abridged European History Series". The book must be back in print - or maybe it's just standard reading in the European educational system.

For interesting reading - you can always read the old Iraq thread.

Nice to see flamebait is still alive and kicking on the 'moot

You bored or summit today JD?

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Beor
Well, if I am a war criminal then Iam a war criminal. You can think what you want dude, but if I ever come over for a beer, try not to mention your opinion stated here.

No what I said in one of my previous post was... there is no such thing as a war criminal, it just wasn't limited to the Axis powers in WWII.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Coney II
Nice to see flamebait is still alive and kicking on the 'moot

You bored or summit today JD?

How is it flamebait Coney?

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Coney II
Nice to see flamebait is still alive and kicking on the 'moot

You bored or summit today JD?

I was not flame baiting - I was merely stating the book that you guys must get your information from.