Who do you think should be elected in 2008?

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by Valandil

You guys need a reality check.

1. Sarah Palin's ties with the oil industry have been connected with fighting abuses.

And yet she supports the drilling for oil in Alaska's wildlife reserves. And considers mankind free of any blame in global climate change. Both do point to ties with the oil industry, even if her standard of ethics is better than others.

[Valandil]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

And yet she supports the drilling for oil in Alaska's wildlife reserves. And considers mankind free of any blame in global climate change. Both do point to ties with the oil industry, even if her standard of ethics is better than others.

(Oops! I accidentally hit 'edit' first, but realized it in time and corrected myself to 'quote' )

I agree with drilling for oil on the north slope. We have the oil, so I don't see why we should leave it there and keep ourselves that much dependent on foreign sources. It seems selfish to say "we don't mind messing with the environment in OTHER places - just so we don't mess with our OWN environment". And... it's only at a small portion of this reserve - which is on the north slope. Opponents show video of forested parts of Alaska - which are hundreds of miles south and separated from the area by a mountain range!

I think we could drill there with a minimum of disruption to the ecosystem. We're talking frozen tundra - not forests.

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by Valandil

(Oops! I accidentally hit 'edit' first, but realized it in time and corrected myself to 'quote' )

Occupational hazard. I catch myself doing it all the time.

It seems selfish to say "we don't mind messing with the environment in OTHER places - just so we don't mess with our OWN environment".

How about not messing with your own environment or anybody else's for that matter, and look for more environmentally friendly energy sources? But that's another discussion, I gather.

I think we could drill there with a minimum of disruption to the ecosystem. We're talking frozen tundra - not forests.

I've seen humanity's track record of working with oil, it ain't pretty. So I don't take minimal disruption for granted. Tundra or forest, reserve means reserve, so hands off IMO.

On the other hand, if Palin's truly into ethical behaviour, maybe she'll actually do something worthwhile when oil companies do mess up. And that's more than anyone's ever got out of Bush or Cheney.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Drilling in Alaska is far preferable to drilling off-shore. That is just screaming for major environmental damages.

[Rían]

So have you guys heard the Internet rumors flying around about how her youngest son is really her daughter's child?

The Innertubes are such fun!

[GrayMouser]

Originally Posted by Acalewia

Obama is a kindergardener on foreign policy. Remember the iran is a small fish comment?

Yep

"Iran, Cuba, Venezuela -- these countries are tiny compared to the Soviet Union," Mr. Obama said. "They don't pose a serious threat to us the way the Soviet Union posed a threat to us. And yet we were willing to talk to the Soviet Union at the time when they were saying we're going to wipe you off the planet. And ultimately that direct engagement led to a series of measures that helped prevent nuclear war, and over time allowed the kind of opening that brought down the Berlin Wall."

Or are you saying Iran isn't a tiny threat compared to the Soviet Union?

USSR:
Population: 280 million
Armed Forces: 4 million (not counting Warsaw Pact)

nuclear warheads:
tactical (battlefield): 20,000
strategic (i.e. capable of hitting the US): 25,000

Iran: population 70 million
armed forces: 500,000
Nuclear warheads: 0

[GrayMouser]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

So have you guys heard the Internet rumors flying around about how her youngest son is really her daughter's child?

The Innertubes are such fun!

Yes- definitely in the tinfoil hat conspiracy range.

Apparently she first announced her pregnancy when she was seven months along, and totally shocked even her closest aides, according to news reports at the time.

Her sixteen-year-old daughter had been out of school with mono for five months.

She was attending a governor's conference in Texas while she was 37 weeks pregnant
Her water broke at 4 am, she made a speech at 10 am, and then took an eight-hour flight to Alaska (she said she called her doctor and got an OK).
Most airlines won't fly someone who is more than 36 weeks; she said the flight attendants didn't notice she was pregnant.

Against that, you'd have to believe the entire operating room crew in an induced birth were in on the conspiracy.

Mind, it's happened before- Eric Clapton grew up believing his mother was actually his sister- she was sixteen at the time she got pregnant, and his grandmother claimed him as her own.

A lot harder to get away with in this day and age, especially if you're a governor!

[GrayMouser]

Early on in the conversation before Palin started to crack up, Lester referred to Sen. Green as a jealous woman and a cancer. Palin, who knows full well Lyda Green is a cancer survivor, didn't do what any decent person would do, say, "Bob, that's going too far."

But as the conversation moved on, Lester intensified his attack on Green.

Lester questioned Green's motherhood, asking Palin if the senator cares about her own kids. Palin laughs.

Then Lester clearly sets the stage for what he is about to say by warning his large audience and Palin. He says, "Governor you can't say this but I will, Lyda Green is a cancer and a b----." Palin laughs for the second time.

What were teenage boys thinking when they heard the governor laugh at someone being called a b----? How about the teenage girls who look up to Palin. What did they think when they heard her laugh?

But there is more. Lester then describes Green's chair as big and cushy. A clear reference to the senator's weight. Palin laughs a third time. She's just having a grand old time.[apparently Lyda Green is a heavy woman-GM]

Palin was clearly enjoying every second of Lester's vicious attack on her political rival.

So, after hearing her opponent, a cancer-survivor, being called a cancer, she laughs while the shock-jocks call the woman a bitch and make fun of her weight. Sweet.
http://tw.youtube.com/watch?v=AKkydr.../30/31130/3584

[GrayMouser]

Early on in the conversation before Palin started to crack up, Lester referred to Sen. Green as a jealous woman and a cancer. Palin, who knows full well Lyda Green is a cancer survivor, didn't do what any decent person would do, say, "Bob, that's going too far."

But as the conversation moved on, Lester intensified his attack on Green.

Lester questioned Green's motherhood, asking Palin if the senator cares about her own kids. Palin laughs.

Then Lester clearly sets the stage for what he is about to say by warning his large audience and Palin. He says, "Governor you can't say this but I will, Lyda Green is a cancer and a b----." Palin laughs for the second time.

What were teenage boys thinking when they heard the governor laugh at someone being called a b----? How about the teenage girls who look up to Palin. What did they think when they heard her laugh?

But there is more. Lester then describes Green's chair as big and cushy. A clear reference to the senator's weight. Palin laughs a third time. She's just having a grand old time.[apparently Lyda Green is a heavy woman-GM]

Palin was clearly enjoying every second of Lester's vicious attack on her political rival.

So, after hearing her opponent, a cancer-survivor, being called a cancer, she laughs while the shock-jocks call her a bitch and make fun of her weight. Sweet.
http://tw.youtube.com/watch?v=AKkydr.../30/31130/3584

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

My brother in law says "Women's groups can't have any objection to her."

He's straight trippin'. Elizabeth Dole is a Republican woman of weight. If McCain had nominated her, I'd take it as a serious choice. This woman is an utter token. And it offends me, personally. It's like Obama picking Scarlett Johanson as a running mate. I could hardly toss an apple in our statehouse without hitting a REPUBLICAN woman more qualified. I hugged 3 of them, yesterday. That McCain picked this woman to be an elderly heartbeat away from being the actual president tells me two things. One is, he's vain beyond belief, like many men "middle aged" and beyond...nothing's going to happen to him. The other is, getting elected is his plan, not governing. Both of those things make me clean MAD!

McCain has achieved one thing. I've been concerned all year about local elections, and primaries. When I looked at the presidential race I thought, "Well, it'll work out." I've had preferences, but other things keep me up.

Not any more. I have 90 days now to keep those people out of office, and that's my new family priority.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally Posted by GrayMouser

Mind, it's happened before- Eric Clapton grew up believing his mother was actually his sister- she was sixteen at the time she got pregnant, and his grandmother claimed him as her own.

Same thing happened with Jack Nicholson.

[D.Sullivan]

I don't think this will bode well for McCain, in the end. Look at this article.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/0..._n_122823.html

I think a lot of people are reacting like Sis did and it's only getting worse as more articles like this come out about Palin.

Fox News has made attempts at making this look good, like trying to argue she has foreign policy experience because she lives close to Russia(), but even they can't make it happen. People aren't buying it.

I think McCain has really shot himself in the foot now...and I'm glad. I don't want a president who politicizes disasters like hurricanes.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/211849.php

[Valandil]

Originally Posted by D.Sullivan

I don't think this will bode well for McCain, in the end. Look at this article.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/0..._n_122823.html

I think a lot of people are reacting like Sis did and it's only getting worse as more articles like this come out about Palin.

Fox News has made attempts at making this look good, like trying to argue she has foreign policy experience because she lives close to Russia(), but even they can't make it happen. People aren't buying it.

I think McCain has really shot himself in the foot now...and I'm glad. I don't want a president who politicizes disasters like hurricanes.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/211849.php

As Alaska's Governor, Palin has made deals with Canada - if that helps you. What's Obama's international experience? Having uncertain citizenship?

Here's an interesting article about Palin's selection by McCain - from the Washington Post:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...002377_pf.html

[GrayMouser]

Well. So much for that rumor.

[D.Sullivan]

Originally Posted by Valandil

As Alaska's Governor, Palin has made deals with Canada - if that helps you. What's Obama's international experience? Having uncertain citizenship?

Here's an interesting article about Palin's selection by McCain - from the Washington Post:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...002377_pf.html

That Washington Post article told me nothing I didn't already know - in fact, it solidified things for me that I already thought were bad. For instance, the fact that McCain has chosen a running mate, who is likely to become president if McCain is elected, who he's only spent a couple hours with. It's becoming more clear all the time also that the McCain campaign didn't vet her properly in the first place, whatever they may say.



From Talking Points Memo:

Face It: They Didn't Vet Her

Earlier I noted Andrea Mitchell's reference to reports that the McCain camp had just sent a team of GOP lawyers up to Alaska to do what I guess you'd call a post-vetting of Sarah Palin. Now George Stephanopoulos appears to have more. George says the McCainers are sending a "rapid response team of about ten operatives that includes lawyers" to do the aforementioned deeper vet. A lot of attention is being given to Gov. Palin's daughter's situation. The much bigger deal is the expanding trooper-gate investigation, the fact that Palin lied in her Friday speech about her purported opposition to the Bridge to Nowhere, her apparent former membership in the secessionist Alaska Independence Party, and more. Individually, you can come to your own judgment about how consequential these stories are. What they show pretty clearly now -- in addition to the news that the McCain campaign is only now sending in a vetting team -- is that John McCain didn't do any serious vetting of Palin before he invited her to join his ticket and, he hopes, become Vice President of the United States.

Fundamentally, of course, this is about John McCain. And the real issue here is what this slapdash decision says about his judgment.

They didn't know what they were getting themselves into, just look at all the things that have come out about her just today:

Also from Talking Points Memo:

On the same day that the Republicans were forced to dramatically cut back their convention activities, the Palin Meltdown unfolded with extraordinary speed. It's worth pondering the totality of what happened today, in a mere half day...

* The news that Palin once backed the Bridge to Nowhere went national.

* It emerged that Palin has links to the bizarro Alaska Independence Party, which harbors the goal of seceding from the union that McCain and Palin seek to lead.

* The news broke that as governor, Palin relied on an earmark system she now opposes. Taken along with the Bridge to Nowhere stuff, this threatens to undercut her reformist image, something that was key to her selection as McCain's Veep candidate.

* The news broke that Palin's 17-year-old daughter became pregnant out of wedlock at a time when the conservative base had finally started rallying behind McCain's candidacy.

* Barely moments after McCain advisers put out word that McCain had known of Bristol Palin's pregnancy, the Anchorage Daily News revealed that Palin's own spokesperson hadn't known about it only two days ago.

* A senior McCain adviser at the Republican convention was forced into the rather embarrassing position of arguing that McCain had known about the pregnancy "last week" -- without saying what day last week he knew about it.

* It came out that Republican lawyers are up in Alaska vetting Palin -- now, more than 72 hours after it was announced that she'd been picked.

* Palin lawyered up in relation to the trooper-gate probe in Alaska -- a move that ensures far more serious attention to the story from the major news orgs.

It's going to take some heavy spinning to keep people from being turned off by this stuff...

[GrayMouser]

“I make them as quickly as I can, quicker than the other fellow, if I can,� Mr. McCain wrote, with his top adviser Mark Salter, in his 2002 book, Worth the Fighting For. “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.�

Which is one thing when you're a Senator, and the only result might be a bit of an embarrassment on the Sunday talk shows...it's quite another when you're getting that infamous 3:00 am phone call.

Plus, from the founder of the Alaskan Independence Party:

"I'm an Alaskan, not an American. I've got no use for America or her damned institutions."
Joe Vogler

http://www.akip.org/introduction.html

Given all the hits Barack and Michelle Obama took over their supposed lack of patriotism, I wonder if Sarah Palin still agrees with that?

[D.Sullivan]

Originally Posted by GrayMouser

Which is one thing when you're a Senator, and the only result might be a bit of an embarrassment on the Sunday talk shows...it's quite another when you're getting that infamous 3:00 am phone call.

Yeah, he likes to shot from the hip...a lot. Not such a great quality in a President. Especially considering our situation with Russia. That last person I want in the White House right now is a trigger happy Reagen lover. That's just asking for second Cold War. Plus, from what I've heard, if he ever was woken up at three in the morning, he'd be doing his best imitation of Hunter Thompson in Fear and Loathing because of all the medication he takes before he goes to bed. He is [I]72[I], remember...

Originally Posted by GrayMouser

Plus, from the founder of the Alaskan Independence Party:

"I'm an Alaskan, not an American. I've got no use for America or her damned institutions."
Joe Vogler

http://www.akip.org/introduction.html

Given all the hits Barack and Michelle Obama took over their supposed lack of patriotism, I wonder if Sarah Palin still agrees with that?

Exactly. Could you imagine what would happen if Obama or Biden ever said anything like that? We'd have lost the race. I think this is one of the big things that's really going to hurt the McCain camp...what have they got on Obama now? All of there favorite cards to play on Obama now apply to Palin, also.

[Coffeehouse]

Ah! 2nd of September! Only 2 months left of tracks for the Republican Lunatic Express! And then.. time for a serious head-on collision

[Acalewia]

You know all this media circus surrounding Palin's daughter is going to far. Is she the only pregnant teenager? I knew at least 6 in high school between the ages of 16 and 18. This is something that should be dealt with in private, not under the watchful eye of the media. The way everyone is acting, you'd think she was the first and only teenager that didn't wait until marriage and ended up knocked up. Get over it! Go check out the local high school. You are guarrenteed to find at least one or two teenage mommies.

[The last sane person]

But it's kinda funny that her mum promotes abstinence and virtues of marriage and blah blah blah... Yet can't even convice to her own daughter to keep her legs crossed. Oh well. At least the girl is lucky that she has a rich family that can help her take care of the kid and go to school. A lot of kids I know weren't that lucky.