Who do you think should be elected in 2008?

[inked]

Well, now that we are down to two actual real candidates..........McCain. Ob's only a junior senator with a liberal record to satisfy the Chicago (Daley) machine.

However, the latter did produce a remarkable President name Truman...once upon a time. Obama is no Truman (to retool a paraphrase). He's already wanting more taxes....................................typical Democrat since the "Great Society" days of Johnson.

Ah, well, let's watch the rhetoric fly. the Newbie may yet speak some substance rather than vague generalites. Dollars to donuts he retools Hillary's health care proposal. Just hope you don't need a cancer treatment (http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/jun/08060402.html)............ or a physician (http://www.internationaltaskforce.org/washin.htm).

Long live the nanny state! -thougn not, perhaps, its constituents!!!

It's a hell of long time until November.......

[frodomerryandaragornrock]

no one's good this year!!! they all stink!!

[Coffeehouse]

Mhm I nearly fell off my chair! Biden as Vice Presidential Candidate?
I feel a bit Homerish (no not the Iliad): Blawwwwww, drool drool

I think Obama and Biden would be a tour de force. This guy will make McCain look like a kindergardener on foreign policy. Literally

[D.Sullivan]

Originally Posted by Coffeehouse

Mhm I nearly fell off my chair! Biden as Vice Presidential Candidate?
I feel a bit Homerish (no not the Iliad): Blawwwwww, drool drool

I think Obama and Biden would be a tour de force. This guy will make McCain look like a kindergardener on foreign policy. Literally

I agree. I was very pleased he was chosen for VPC by Obama. I liked Biden in the early debates while he was still running for Presidential candidate. He had a presence of clarity and real understanding of the issues at hand, which made me pretty comfortable with the idea of him being President(though I didn't agree with him on everything).

Obama/Biden08!

P.S. This speech given by Kerry at the DNC very well sums up how I've been feeling about the election...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05udZa68P4U

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

Biden did a nice job. Both Bidens did.

[Coffeehouse]

Gotta love the guy I was supporting him before he fell out of the primaries though; but to be fair his strengths make him alot more suited to the Vice-Presidency than the Presidency. Biden goes hand-in-hand with wisdom and advice: the guy with the background and the know-how to give Obama advice on everything from the economy to foreign affairs to crime prevention and health care.

I watched some of the speeches from last night's convention, and I gotta say, fmr President Bill Clinton really pulled it off, and so did Kerry! and so did Hillary

All the Republicans in here might want to take a look at, in my view, the most intelligent argument yet to come forth in this campaign, by fmr President Bill Clinton in his speech last night:

"And it is, to be fair to all the Americans who aren't as hard- core Democrats as we, it's a philosophy the American people never actually had a chance to see in action fully until 2001, when the Republicans finally gained control of both the White House and the Congress.
Then we saw what would happen to America if the policies they had talked about for decades actually were implemented. And look what happened.
They took us from record surpluses to an exploding debt; from over 22 million new jobs to just 5 million; from increasing working families' incomes to nearly $7,500 a year to a decline of more than $2,000 a year; from almost 8 million Americans lifted out of poverty to more than 5.5 million driven into poverty; and millions more losing their health insurance."

[Jonathan]

McCain counters by picking Alaska's governor Sarah Palin as his running mate.

[Insidious Rex]

Thats all we need... another VP with direct ties to the oil industry... Havent you guys had enough of that already with Cheney?

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

I'm outraged at what this says about how Republicans view woman voters.

Do they REALLY think we can't tell the difference between Hillary Rodham Clinton and THIS?

[The Gaffer]

Time will tell I guess. Do you think the Democrats will be aggressive enough to expose it?

[BeardofPants]

What they need to do is get Hillary on her ass ASAP. She's probably the only one with name recognition that could get away with pointing out how obnoxious this choice is, and how denigrating it is to employ a gimmick like this.

[Valandil]

You guys need a reality check.

1. Sarah Palin's ties with the oil industry have been connected with fighting abuses.

2. Incidentally, she has fought against political corruption... in her own party!

3. Do you hate the fact that she was in a beauty pageant? She was also a key player on a state championship basketball team. Played through a lot of adversity. Later coached and then went into politics, where she has been known as a reformer.

4. Sarah Palin was a GREAT choice. Maybe you folks are just disappointed McCain didn't make some boring pick (like Lieberman, Romney, Ridge, et al), whom the Democrats could have rolled over with ease. There's nothing to 'expose' - except that a sharp, young talent - with some actual experience - has been 'discovered'.

5. So far, she has 'changed' a whole lot more than Obama has.

[Valandil]

And PS: She's got an 80% approval rating by the people she governs (Alaskans).

Obama, meanwhile, has never done much of anything for his constituents in his congressional district in Illinois (while in the state senate) or in his last four years in the US Senate.

'cept make a good speech now and then.

[Coffeehouse]

Originally Posted by Valandil

And PS: She's got an 80% approval rating by the people she governs (Alaskans).

Obama, meanwhile, has never done much of anything for his constituents in his congressional district in Illinois (while in the state senate) or in his last four years in the US Senate.

'cept make a good speech now and then.

Let's take a look at some of things Obama did in the State Senate of Illinois:

- Successfully co-sponsored major ethics reform, the Gift Ban Act.

- Successfully sponsored move to shield Illinois workers from federal rules that threatened overtime pay for some employees.

- Successfully sponsored the Health Care Justice Act, a study of ways to implement a universal health care system statewide.

Voted against making permanent the repeal of the state’s 5 percent sales tax on gasoline.

Helped pass a 5 percent earned-income tax credit for low-income working families in 2000; made the credit permanent in 2003.

Voted to raise the minimum wage in Illinois from $5.15 an hour to $6.50 an hour over two years.

and just to round it off, Obama's speech against invading Iraq in 2002. Anyone say good judgement? What was that? Evidence? What? Lies? Bush? GOP? Didn't hear you right? Oh, you didn't know S. Hussein was weak? Nobody told you? Not your fault? Everyone did it? Yeah? That makes it okay? No? Yes? Um?
Not exactly Obama! Not exactly too much, at all, Barack Obama:

Senator Barack Obama (D-Il), then an Illinois state senator, delivered these remarks in October 2002 at the Federal Plaza in Chicago.

"I stand before you as someone who is not opposed to war in all circumstances. The Civil War was one of the bloodiest in history, and yet it was only through the crucible of the sword, the sacrifice of multitudes, that we could begin to perfect this union and drive the scourge of slavery from our soil.

I don't oppose all wars. My grandfather signed up for a war the day after Pearl Harbor was bombed, fought in Patton's army. He fought in the name of a larger freedom, part of that arsenal of democracy that triumphed over evil.

I don't oppose all wars. After September 11, after witnessing the carnage and destruction, the dust and the tears, I supported this administration's pledge to hunt down and root out those who would slaughter innocents in the name of intolerance, and I would willingly take up arms myself to prevent such tragedy from happening again.

I don't oppose all wars. What I am opposed to is a dumb war. What I am opposed to is a rash war. What I am opposed to is the cynical attempt by Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz and other armchair, weekend warriors in this administration to shove their own ideological agendas down our throats, irrespective of the costs in lives lost and in hardships borne.

What I am opposed to is the attempt by political hacks like Karl Rove to distract us from a rise in the uninsured, a rise in the poverty rate, a drop in the median income, to distract us from corporate scandals and a stock market that has just gone through the worst month since the Great Depression.

That's what I'm opposed to. A dumb war. A rash war. A war based not on reason but on passion, not on principle but on politics.

Now let me be clear: I suffer no illusions about Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal man. A ruthless man. A man who butchers his own people to secure his own power.... The world, and the Iraqi people, would be better off without him.

But I also know that Saddam poses no imminent and direct threat to the United States, or to his neighbors...and that in concert with the international community he can be contained until, in the way of all petty dictators, he falls away into the dustbin of history.

I know that even a successful war against Iraq will require a U.S. occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences.

I know that an invasion of Iraq without a clear rationale and without strong international support will only fan the flames of the Middle East, and encourage the worst, rather than best, impulses of the Arab world, and strengthen the recruitment arm of al-Qaeda.

I am not opposed to all wars. I'm opposed to dumb wars. So for those of us who seek a more just and secure world for our children, let us send a clear message to the president.

You Want a Fight, President Bush?

You want a fight, President Bush? Let's finish the fight with Bin Laden and al-Qaeda, through effective, coordinated intelligence, and a shutting down of the financial networks that support terrorism, and a homeland security program that involves more than color-coded warnings.

You want a fight, President Bush? Let's fight to make sure that...we vigorously enforce a nonproliferation treaty, and that former enemies and current allies like Russia safeguard and ultimately eliminate their stores of nuclear material, and that nations like Pakistan and India never use the terrible weapons already in their possession, and that the arms merchants in our own country stop feeding the countless wars that rage across the globe.

You want a fight, President Bush? Let's fight to make sure our so-called allies in the Middle East, the Saudis and the Egyptians, stop oppressing their own people, and suppressing dissent, and tolerating corruption and inequality, and mismanaging their economies so that their youth grow up without education, without prospects, without hope, the ready recruits of terrorist cells.

You want a fight, President Bush? Let's fight to wean ourselves off Middle East oil through an energy policy that doesn't simply serve the interests of Exxon and Mobil.

Those are the battles that we need to fight. Those are the battles that we willingly join. The battles against ignorance and intolerance. Corruption and greed. Poverty and despair."

Obama was right. He spoke of Al Qaeda, undefeated. He spoke of the unintended consequences of Iraq, currently in pieces,and an inflamed Middle East. He spoke of an unresolved Afghanistan. He spoke of a dilapidating economy. That's called good judgement.

[Coffeehouse]

It'll be fun though, to watch the Vice Presidential Debate. I will almost cheer on Palin, out of pity, when she is going to argue the Economy and Foreign Relations with Joe Biden. Poor girl!

[Valandil]

Originally Posted by Coffeehouse

It'll be fun though, to watch the Vice Presidential Debate. I will almost cheer on Palin, out of pity, when she is going to argue the Economy and Foreign Relations with Joe Biden. Poor girl!

You can lay your pity aside. I suspect she can handle herself - and maybe give Biden more than he bargained for.

[Coffeehouse]

Originally Posted by Valandil

You can lay your pity aside. I suspect she can handle herself - and maybe give Biden more than he bargained for.

I suspect Palin is way over her head. And I suspect you suspect as much too

A woman who was, a little over a year ago, the mayor of a town with 8,000+ people? That's executive experience?
A woman who is currently under investigation for lying and abuse of power?
A woman who asked mockingly a reporter in June-July, can't remember, "What exactly is it that a Vice President does all day?"

I mean, c'mon

[Acalewia]

Originally Posted by Coffeehouse

I think Obama and Biden would be a tour de force. This guy will make McCain look like a kindergardener on foreign policy. Literally

Obama is a kindergardener on foreign policy. Remember the iran is a small fish comment?

Originally Posted by Valandil

You guys need a reality check.

1. Sarah Palin's ties with the oil industry have been connected with fighting abuses.

2. Incidentally, she has fought against political corruption... in her own party!

3. Do you hate the fact that she was in a beauty pageant? She was also a key player on a state championship basketball team. Played through a lot of adversity. Later coached and then went into politics, where she has been known as a reformer.

4. Sarah Palin was a GREAT choice. Maybe you folks are just disappointed McCain didn't make some boring pick (like Lieberman, Romney, Rdige, et al), whom the Democrats could have rolled over with ease. There's nothing to 'expose' - except that a sharp, young talent - with some actual experience - has been 'discovered'.

5. So far, she has 'changed' a whole lot more than Obama has.

Originally Posted by Valandil

And PS: She's got an 80% approval rating by the people she governs (Alaskans).

Obama, meanwhile, has never done much of anything for his constituents in his congressional district in Illinois (while in the state senate) or in his last four years in the US Senate.

'cept make a good speech now and then.

Thank you.

Originally Posted by Coffeehouse

I suspect Palin is way over her head. And I suspect you suspect as much too

A woman who was, a little over a year ago, the mayor of a town with 8,000+ people? That's executive experience?
A woman who is currently under investigation for lying and abuse of power?
A woman who asked mockingly a reporter in June-July, can't remember, "What exactly is it that a Vice President does all day?"

I mean, c'mon

I agree with Val. You guys are just pissed that McCain did what Obama should have by picking a woman to be his running mate. I can't even count the amont of people I've heard say they're going to vote for Clinton. Obama may have had a chance if he would have chosen her as his running mate.

Either way, this election is going to be a historymaker. Obama wins: we get the first black prez. McCain wins: we get the first female VP.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it

[Coffeehouse]

Originally Posted by Acalewia

I agree with Val. You guys are just pissed that McCain did what Obama should have by picking a woman to be his running mate.

I mean.. seriously?

He chose Biden! It's the dream ticket! What are you on about?

Come VP debate, Biden will crush Palin. She has absolutely no chance. I'm sorry to break it to you. I just fear what state of affairs she's in after the debate is over

And even worse! McCain seems to actually believe that choosing a woman makes up the lost ground for Clinton-voters C'mon!
Most Clinton voters are not going to change their vote to McCain because of that, and it's an insult to these voters integrity that McCain thinks that way.
Choosing an unknown Palin is pure desperation from McCain and I feel sorry for his shallow intellect.

[Valandil]

I don't think there was really a lot of hope in stealing away disgruntled Clintonites. Just as many of them would have voted for McCain as a protest against Obama anyway (over what they regard as unfair treatment in the primaries).

However - what Palin MAY do, is solidify the GOP base, many of whom are somewhat frustrated with the Bush administration, and have been thus far lukewarm to McCain.

As for future debates, and the wisdom of McCain's choice (and his intellect), let's just wait and see.