02-27-2007, 12:11 PM | #681 | ||
Friendly Neigborhood Sith Lord
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Wow the catholics are still bitter about Luther and his 95 thesi, thats remarkable. It reminds of how this british guy was bitter about thanksgiving, going on about those "pilgrim traitors".
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I was Press Secretary for the Berlioz administration and also, but not limited to, owner and co operator of fully armed and operational battle station EDDIE Quote:
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02-27-2007, 01:23 PM | #682 | ||
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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02-27-2007, 01:39 PM | #683 | ||
Elf Lord
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 02-27-2007 at 01:41 PM. |
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02-27-2007, 01:46 PM | #684 |
Elf Lord
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and the issue of censor?
That, what may be deemed, 'loaded language' by one ought to be referencable by what scale of accuracy? ... and the issue of enforcing change to the written word? does this not equate to an attack on the freedom of language, and indeed free thought? |
02-27-2007, 01:54 PM | #685 | |
Elf Lord
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Lief, I most sincerely hope
that you are never in a position to kill anyone.
I further hope, that, should you be compelled to kill someone, your trust in this definition of murder protects your conscience from regret. Quote:
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02-27-2007, 02:03 PM | #686 |
Elf Lord
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are you a he or she btw?
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02-27-2007, 02:11 PM | #687 | ||
Elf Lord
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Can I take it we agree that: Quote:
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02-27-2007, 02:26 PM | #688 | ||
Elf Lord
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It's also really tough because sometimes, especially in wars with lower technology levels, hitting the civilian population was necessary to end the war more quickly and so save more lives in the long run. The Sherman March is a good example of this, and the bombing of industries in civilian areas of Germany and Japan, and the nuclear bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Civilians play a very important role in a war effort. They don't fight the war themselves, but they give food to those who do, clothing, and monetary support to the troops, and support those who send the troops out and recruit them. So they are involved in the war effort, often, and isn't the one who sends someone else onto the field as guilty of what takes place as the one on the field? It can be tough to draw the line between "civilian" and "soldier". Especially back when technology was lower and we couldn't make precision attacks like we often can nowadays. So sometimes the destruction of civilians like this is not necessarily a war crime. Refusing to hit any civilians or civilian areas, especially in past wars, will prolong the time that their side can produce more soldiers and equipment, and so can make the casualties on both your side and their side worse in the long run. So that's a tough ethical issue, and if killing civilians in war is sometimes justified, as I think it can be, this too would disqualify some of those killings as "murder." Rather, those killings might be the most ethical thing to do, to preserve life on both your side and that of your opponent. I'm not saying that any or all civilian casualties in war are justified. I don't even think that killing the enemy troops in battle is always justified- it varies depending on what troops we're talking about, among other circumstances. I'm just saying that civilian deaths are sometimes justified, and the ethics involved in war can be very complex, without any simple black and white cover-all-bases view being appropriate. But even if we discounted this and agreed, for the sake of argument, that all purposefully committed attacks on civilians in war are murders, I don't know that this number would reach the millions number you suggested.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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02-27-2007, 02:34 PM | #689 |
Elf Lord
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Gee,
it's right out of the Al-Queda training manual, isn't it.
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02-27-2007, 02:36 PM | #690 |
Elf Lord
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As I think about this more, sisterandcousinandaunt, and more carefully, I actually suspect that you are correct. If we include all the Christian religious wars in history, I bet you're probably right that millions have been murdered in the name of Christ. So I'm withdrawing my complaint about your choice of language on that point.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 02-27-2007 at 02:37 PM. |
02-27-2007, 05:43 PM | #691 | |
Elf Lord
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Lief's compassionate christianity? Looks that way. |
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02-27-2007, 05:53 PM | #692 | |
Elf Lord
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2 minutes? well, good. One needn't, Lief, surrender either a position, nor, more importantly one's core beliefs because the world will not, nor ever did, fit into rosy tinted perspective... But one should not therefore taint the very tenets of one's belief to attempt to encompass the very real and pointed imperfections of the potential truth contained in any rose-tinted fragrant avenue - Life, let alone gardening is rarely like that - be true to what you think and/or believe, but do not be blindly drawn down blind side-streets filled with filth or traps or needless bigotry Accept the impure with the pure in this world, as jesus accepted- the better to judge between the two- do NOT be suckered into blind socio/political dogma. Think for yourself - whatever your'e final outcome. Last edited by Butterbeer : 02-27-2007 at 05:56 PM. |
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02-27-2007, 06:56 PM | #693 | |
Elf Lord
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Based on your reasoning, which seems to be that anything the bad guys do shouldn't be done by the good guys, I might argue, "The Nazis used guns, so our policemen shouldn't have guns." In fact, I might just as well say, "the Nazis wore clothes to protect themselves from the cold in winter. So we should never wear clothes." Or, "Al'Qaeda personel use cell-phones, so we shouldn't use cell-phones." Heck, the Al'Qaeda personel eat food, so we had better not eat food either!
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 02-27-2007 at 07:01 PM. |
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02-27-2007, 07:08 PM | #694 | ||||||
Elf Lord
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Sorry, I couldn't resist saying that!
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 02-27-2007 at 07:10 PM. |
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02-27-2007, 07:10 PM | #695 |
Elf Lord
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No. I would say instead
that there is a difference between things that are right and things that are wrong. And the good guys shouldn't do things that are wrong.
You see, we aren't that far apart, on some things. |
02-27-2007, 07:20 PM | #696 | ||
Elf Lord
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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02-27-2007, 07:36 PM | #697 |
Elf Lord
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I wasn't being facietious.
I think all the justification you were spinning, about necessary casualties in war, is exactly what makes it possible for people to sign up as suicide bombers.
OR to go to Iraq and shoot strangers. I think that in order to do that, people need to distance themselves from the real import of their actions. AND I think that Jesus would disapprove. I think that Matthew 26.52 speaks to that directly. |
02-27-2007, 08:08 PM | #698 | |||
Elf Lord
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Remember also that Jesus specifically said that the Law was not obsolete or discarded, but rather was fulfilled in him. In fact, he said that not the smallest stroke of the pen that was written in the Law would be lost. Ecclesiasties comes right out and says, "there is a time to kill." The statement that, "all who draw the sword will die by the sword," is a general truth. People who pursue violent lives very often end violently. Sometimes they get away with it and sometimes good people die violently. But it generally happens that the violent die violently, because their lifestyles lead them into dangerous places and make them enemies. Jesus wanted his disciples not to get into this violent lifestyle, but rather to have mercy and turn the other cheek. As Ecclesiasties says, "there is a time and place for everything under the sun"- though I think that other scriptures make it clear that this too is a general truth referring to most actions, but not something that is referring to inherently sinful actions. Ecclesiasties says, "there is a time to kill and a time to heal," and I believe that. And I also believe what Jesus said, which was that people who live in violent lifestyles often end violently. I think it's clear from scripture that there is "a time for everything under the sun," and that includes a time to defend oneself and a time to not defend oneself. In verse 54, Matthew 26 makes clear that the reason this was not a time to defend oneself was that otherwise the scriptures would not be fulfilled.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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02-27-2007, 08:42 PM | #699 |
Elf Lord
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Forget the tiny, irrelevant post right here.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 02-27-2007 at 09:03 PM. |
02-27-2007, 08:58 PM | #700 | |||||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Did you read the entire post before you made that comment? He sums it up like this: Quote:
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and Luke 22:26: "He said to them, 'But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.' " context, context, CONTEXT!! So do you think people should NEVER stand up and fight for something they believe in? I think that attitude is an attitude that would make suicide bombers flourish, if you want to go with those types of comments. Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 02-27-2007 at 09:10 PM. |
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