02-16-2006, 04:56 PM | #661 | |
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Back to Muslims now
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02-16-2006, 05:01 PM | #662 |
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bit of this bit of that, describes most all of humanity....they aren't a race for the purposes herein stated.
back to ...........
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02-16-2006, 05:26 PM | #663 | |
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Also I wonder: several magazines in dominantly christian lands publish cartoons insulting a muslim holy man. Several muslims respond by lashing out to the Jewish community by denying the Holocaust. I say: Eh? Why not respond on the same level and slander christian holy people? That would have made perfect sense to me, now Jesus would have been too tricky but christianity's got more then a few others to choose from. Or maybe is it because the rallying parties realised most christians wouldn't be making such a big deal out of it? It does make one wonder. It all makes me start to believe that most demonstrations and out-cries were not so spontaneous as previously described and that a lot of people got riled up and duped into kicking up dust by a lot less orchestrators. Of course, the Holocaust hits closer to home for Europeans but why not pick another genocide? Europe IIRC also recognizes the Armenian genocide (denying that would have made sense, Turkey still does), the genocide in Rwanda etc... If you must use a genocide why the Holocaust? Because it's the most famous? Maybe. Because this one was in the heart of Western Europe? Why not deny the whole World War then while you're at it? Or is it because of the Holocaust's unseverable tie with Israel and all things Jewish? Wouldn't that be rather hypocritical too? I'm not saying that Europe is entirely free from hypocrisy (hey, I could probably rant for hours about that) but Europe isn't the only one suffering from hypocrisy in this conflict. (I don't claim or pretend to know any of the answers to the questions I asked in this post, I just think they are questions to be considered.)
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02-16-2006, 05:32 PM | #664 | |
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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02-16-2006, 06:06 PM | #665 | |||
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Lief, if publishing an anti-Christian caricatures was illegal in Europe, and yet anti-Muslim was legal - that would be hypocrisy. I don't see how you can compare a massacre with the mockery of a religion. If someone thinks a mass murder isn't as terrible as the blasphemy of a prophet there's definitely something wrong with him. Quote:
Do you agree that Holocaust Denial is more dangerous? If the holocaust would be forgotten in a few decades, what would prevent it from happening once again? Btw, Gaffer is right - what united the Jews 100 years ago was not the religion but the race. Herzl himself was an atheist, IIRC. |
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02-16-2006, 06:15 PM | #666 |
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I'd say Judaism is both a race and a religion. Rad, isn't a child Jewish if his mother is Jewish (and not necessarily his father?) And a baby can't have a religious opinion... but a person of any race can become Jewish (the religion).
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
02-16-2006, 07:50 PM | #667 | |
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02-16-2006, 09:13 PM | #668 | |
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02-16-2006, 09:16 PM | #669 |
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Well, all I can say is, no matter how much it hurt, for him to say and feel that towards you and your offer, you're better off he is an ex!
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02-16-2006, 10:01 PM | #670 | |
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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02-16-2006, 10:21 PM | #671 |
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Well, you guys, actually he WAS a jerk, in many personal ways - but that's my personal relationship, which has nothing to do with the insight I have into wheter judaism is a race or religion. I'm just tryna say, from what I experienced with Avi, it was definitely both, but the race part- the part where being truly a Chosen One you'd have to be BORN that way, was way, way more important than the religion part, i.e. deciding to convert to Judaism as an adult, after deciding to and studying for it. By this rationale, it looks like the race of Judaism is inherently a necessary component of being Jewish by religion, so the two terms are equal and interchangeable when talking about being Jewish. I think that this is unique in all the cultures and races and religions around the world, or correct me if I'm wrong. The only comparable thing is the idea and practice of Monarchy, I think, which has nothing to do with religion, but is a born-to-the-manner type of way of thinking, just like traditional Judaism.
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02-16-2006, 10:56 PM | #672 |
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From what I know about Judaism (which isn't a whole lot), I think an adult convert would be equal to a natural-born Jew in the eyes of the Law. Hobbit, any info for us?
(but of course the convert wouldn't be "equal" in the eyes of the Jewish mamas! ) edit - whoops, slipped OT onto Judaism on a Muslim thread!
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
02-16-2006, 10:57 PM | #673 |
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Yeah, it is like a race and a religion. (I made a post on that in the religious knowledge topic) That still is a pretty hurtful thing to say - that you wouldn't love your own baby just because he/she wasn't "completely Jewish"
Sounds like your boyfriend is Orthodox or something. Converts aren't really encouraged in Judaism like in Christianity. Some Jews would never marry a non-Jew and have kids with them. Others wouldn't care as much (more likely reform or conservative). You fall in love with who you fall in love with.
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02-16-2006, 11:10 PM | #674 |
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Actually, I posted it in the Theological topic.
http://entmoot.com/showthread.php?p=525050#post525050
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02-16-2006, 11:13 PM | #675 |
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He MUST have been sort of Orthodox - I mean, he's Israeli, and his family back in Haifa are very strict. He once absolutely lost it - LOST it with me, when I left a take-out salad in the refrigerator that had bacon bits in it - I am NOT joking, he LOST it on me, and usually he was always such an even-tempered, calm/controlled looking kind of man. Go figure! Although I admit, that time I actually left that salad with bacon bits on PURpose in the fridge to see how he'd react, plus I was mad at him that day about something stupid and I was testing him, trying to see which "buttons" he might have. The "No bacon or pork products in my house" button was alive and well, I can assure you! He was fanatical about keeping meat plates FAR far away from the dairy plates, too; that was another thing. Another time he went bananas on me was when I got caught cutting cheese with his meat-only knife. Well anyway.
Here is a very, very informative website for ALL of us to be able to benefit from in here, the Muslims thread. They do a three-way comparison of Judaism, Christianity and Islam, and I thought since this thread keeps ending up comparing religions in order to be able to discuss Muslim at all, that the least we could use here would be a handy comparison-chart. http://www.religionfacts.com/islam/c...ristianity.htm
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02-16-2006, 11:51 PM | #676 |
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That site admits that it does somewhat generalize, and I noticed some generalizations in it too. Nonetheless, it is overall pretty useful.
The charts were good. Here's one part that isn't a chart, but which I liked anyway: Is there a difference [between religions]? -brackets added there by Lief In looking at these major belief systems and their views of God, we find tremendous diversity: Hindus believe in 300,000 gods. Buddhists say there is no deity. New Age followers believe they are God. Muslims believe in a powerful but unknowable God. Christians believe in a God who is loving and approachable. Are all religions worshiping the same God? Let's consider that. New Age teaches that everyone should come to center on a cosmic consciousness, but it would require Islam to give up their one God, Hinduism to give up their numerous gods, and Buddhism to establish that there is a God. The world's major religions (Hinduism, New Age, Buddhism, Islam, following Jesus Christ) are each quite unique. And of these one affirms that there is a personal, loving God who can be known, now in this life. Jesus Christ spoke of a God who welcomes us into a relationship with him and comes along side us as a comforter, counselor and powerful God who loves us. In Hinduism a person is on their own trying to gain release from karma. In New Age a person is working at their own divinity. In Buddhism it is an individual quest at being free from desire. And in Islam, the individual follows religious laws for the sake of paradise after death. In Jesus' teaching, you see a personal relationship with a personal God -- a relationship that carries over into the next life."
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02-17-2006, 05:42 AM | #677 |
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We're getting slightly off topic here.
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02-17-2006, 11:47 AM | #678 |
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02-17-2006, 12:35 PM | #679 | |
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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02-17-2006, 12:57 PM | #680 | ||||||||
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Martin Luther King Jr. predicted that he very well might not live to see the end of the Civil Rights movement, but he believed that what he was doing was worth the cost of his life. He died because of a belief, the belief that his people must be freed. Jesus Christ also died because of a belief- the belief that he was the Son of God. His disciples were persecuted and killed because they believed the same thing about him. Many heroes and heroines through the centuries have died for good causes, have died over beliefs and spiritual truths. I hope that I may be one of those who has the courage to die for his or her beliefs. So, that people should take such a strong stance on beliefs in the Muslim world should not be a huge shock. Religious belief is fervent in these Arab countries. To you, religion and belief may not be such a huge deal, but for a large percentage of the rest of the world, the outlook is very different, and religious belief can have an even higher priority than life. We have seen that with a variety of people ranging from suicide bombers to saints. It's another different outlook, one that I happen to share. Quote:
Though we cannot accept the extremist perspective that seeks to destroy us. That perspective, we can only fight against or change peacefully. Where changing it peacefully seems impossible, we must fight. Quote:
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 02-19-2006 at 04:50 PM. Reason: Misspelling :o |
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