03-28-2008, 09:40 AM | #661 |
The Ñoldóran
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Hey, if we get rid of the Electoral College, and implement PR and/or STV, I'll be perfectly happy.
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Then Celegorm no more would stay, And Curufin smiled and turned away... ~The Lay of Leithian |
03-28-2008, 09:54 AM | #662 |
Elf Lord
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Posts: 4,535
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No, you won't.
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That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May |
03-28-2008, 09:55 AM | #663 |
The Ñoldóran
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Well, no, probably not, but it's a nice thing to think.
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Then Celegorm no more would stay, And Curufin smiled and turned away... ~The Lay of Leithian |
03-28-2008, 01:02 PM | #664 | |
Elf Lord
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You can, of course, write off those opinions as being uninformed. After all, it is only based on the high profile stories and doesn't descend to state or local politics except when some celebrity gets elected mayor or something. Perhaps we should just keep our ill-informed views to ourselves? It is a symptom of political systems everywhere that influence can be bought. It is also true, I think, that in Western democracies, the major political parties are increasingly bland and inseperable, fighting it out over the centre-right "swing territory". The need to raise vast sums for campaigning seems to be a major contributory factor in both of these. To me, that is the most important thing to address, if we are concerned about making politics truly democratic as opposted to plutocratic. |
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03-28-2008, 03:26 PM | #665 |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
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You gotta love the drollness
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03-28-2008, 06:03 PM | #666 | ||
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Ahaha, brilliant. In other news, the Pope is revealed as being Catholic.
If you're wondering what that comic was referring to, it is the big fat whopper Hilary Clinton recently told about landing under sniper fire in Bosnia in 1996. No matter which way her crew spins this, she's not going to escape serious damage. There are two options here: 1. She didn't lie, she misremembered. In this case, she would be a moron. I don't care how long ago you were shot at, but unless it happens to you on a regular basis (which it does not in her case), only a goldfish would forget what really happened. However, the popular New York senator and lawyer is not a moron, leading us to option two. 2. She did lie, and did not misremember. I see no alternative to her simply trying to get away with embellishing her experience, hoping that she could slip this under the radar. Too bad for her that people actually aren't idiots, and we're a bit sick of politicians who are liars. As jaded as someone might be, thinking that all politicians are crooks, they still are unlikely to accept such a total disregard for the truth and the intelligence of her audience. I liked Hilary Clinton a lot; she's smart and tough. But her being a big fat liar puts a huge damper on this. I have lost a huge amount of respect for her.
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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03-28-2008, 06:31 PM | #667 | |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
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"Pope Comes Out: He's Catholic!" "A Catholic Pope!" ----------- I like the "Bear Craps In Woods" headline
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03-28-2008, 06:37 PM | #668 | ||
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You just made the 666th post in this thread! That is somehow significant!
Fixed it for you. Now that would be an interesting headline.
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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03-28-2008, 06:41 PM | #669 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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Not like it would be the first time...
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03-28-2008, 06:43 PM | #670 |
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Technically, it's the 667th. The initial starting post counts in the numbered posts, but not in the post count. So it's you, Nurvvy, that's stuck with it
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03-28-2008, 06:45 PM | #671 |
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Sorry, but ole' Benedict just doesn't seem like he'd be the type.
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03-28-2008, 07:13 PM | #672 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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Don't they call it the German vice?
Bad, bad gwai...
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
03-28-2008, 08:47 PM | #673 | ||
Elf Lord
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I think there are evil evil people in politics. Also in car sales. But the daily give and take of politics, as opposed to the rhetoric of the election nonsense, involves quite a good percentage of people for whom the term "public service" is not just a slogan. They may have crazy flashes, and there are some idealogues, but the vast majority of them are still *knock wood* trying to accomplish something that they believe is in the best interests of the people who voted for them. You can't always see that from a distance. People complain that some aspect of the system keeps down the Green Party, but what keeps down many of the smaller parties is being unable to agree on their platform. Yet, I'll walk into the voting booth and have lines for a number of parties (C) = Constitution Party (D) = Democratic Party (G) = Green Party (I) = independent candidates (Ind) = Independence Party (L) = Libertarian Party (R) = Republican Party (WF) = Working Families Party (WI) = Write-in candidates I can join or vote for any of them, or even run as a write in... people do that here on statewide elections if they lose a primary, fairly frequently. My Governor wasn't born with a silver spoon, she has a GED. I think we do a disservice if we just fold our hands and complain, that's what I'm saying. I'm very concerned about the impact of money, this behavior by McCain, for example, had me outraged. http://s3.amazonaws.com/apache.3cdn...._99m6iysgp.pdf But I still believe people who care should show up at the party CLOSEST to representing their point of view and then fight tooth and nail to get it closer.
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That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May |
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03-29-2008, 01:05 AM | #674 |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
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Five Stars For Sis! Woohoo! *****
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03-29-2008, 03:44 AM | #675 |
Elf Lord
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THanks for replying sis; it did seem as if you might be implying that, and I wouldn't be doing my job if I let you get away with it.
I totally agree: there are many, many people in politics with a high regard for public service. That's as it should be. My point was really not aimed specifically at the American system, although I think the structure of the primaries means that the candidates have to go through the money-raising grinder twice. (What's particularly impressive about Obama is that he raised so much of his funds from small personal donations.) The bad news from my point of view is that our system is becoming more like that. It's also becoming more media-focused, in that it is all about spin, meta-campaigning, in the NFL-rushing-yards stats type way. The media organisations are a dark glass through which to view politics for sure. Not just in terms of their ownership, but also the class and cultural background of the journalists, and their personal ambitions. The good news is that we are considering reforms to limit campaign spending and more tightly regulate the role of money in buying policy. As I've said before, the particuarly impressive thing about the primaries system is that it gives people a voice early doors, and seems to really get activated at a grass roots level. It would be unthinkable for someone like Obama to come from nowhere and have a real chance of becoming President. |
03-29-2008, 03:47 AM | #676 | |
Elf Lord
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03-29-2008, 09:56 AM | #677 | ||||
Elf Lord
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Oh, sorry. That required more background, didn't it? In many states there are two ways to get on the primary ballot. One is by signature. You get a certain amount of signatures from registered voters (usually of your party). However, in some states, you can get on the ballot by raising enough money to qualify for matching funds. McCain, Mr. "I don't need federal matching funds" guy, put himself on two state ballots (including Delaware's) just by REFERENCING his eligibility. Effectively, although he might not have put cash in his pocket, and he didn't raise his money IN the state, he didn't have to go to the trouble and expense of opening an office, getting signatures, etc. In little state terms it's like having a candidate that wows them in the Balkans and raises a good amount of money in Portugal use that to get on the ballot in Scotland. Other candidates had to do it the hard way.
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That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May |
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03-29-2008, 09:05 PM | #678 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
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It's interesting that Americans often draw analogies with European states as if they were like American states, I'm not sure if it's Americans being parochial or Europeans being in denial. Anyhow, that's by the by.
I still don't really understand that PDF, however I'm prepared to take your word that it signifies his unsuitability for high office. So if you want to be President do you have to get nominated in every state then? Here, you get whoever happens to be leader of the party with most MPs as Prime Minister. Far less democratic in some ways. But a lot less farting about, which is probably for the best. Some of the proposed reforms are quite interesting: caps on spending, state funding of political parties, etc. We'll see what comes out of it. This government has done some quite radical constitutional stuff (devolution) and botched some other constitutional stuff (House of Lords). Last edited by The Gaffer : 03-29-2008 at 09:06 PM. |
03-30-2008, 11:53 AM | #679 | ||||
Elf Lord
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This references the nomination process, which is decided, state by state, by party officials, and overseen by the governments of each state. Again, it's partly a federalism issue. There are rights you can get in a state that are not transferable to other states. For example, Alaska licenses drivers at 16, but they would not be permitted to drive in Massachusetts at night, or with unrelated minors in the car. In North Dakota, you only have to be 14, but if you were stopped in some states, they'd just take the car. During the nomination process, each state sets the rules for how a candidate appears on the ballot. Voters in the Delaware Republican primary had a choice of 6 candidates, two of whom had withdrawn by the time of the election. People still voted for them, though. McCain, however, was among candidates who not only never opened an office in the state, he also didn't even send out someone for signatures to get on the ballot. If your hope for the primary system is that it activated people at the grassroots level, it was a failure, in this instance. Quote:
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That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May |
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03-31-2008, 04:06 AM | #680 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In me taters
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Another important difference is that you always know when the next election is going ot be. Our PM calls the date of the general election with about 8 weeks' notice usually. That kinda prevents this 2-year election campaign beauty contest thing. However, we're getting more and more PR focussed nevertheless. |
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