Who do you think should be elected in 2008?

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

Originally Posted by Curufin

SCA - as much as possible, if I had my choice.

Not me. *shakes head* I don't like big groups. I like small groups who run big groups even less. This is a big darn country. It needs to be run by people who understand the issues at hand. The Federal government runs Washington DC. When that place is the city on the hill it was designed to be, we'll talk about expanding their control to MY neighborhood.

[Curufin]

I guess it was my research into the Civil Rights movement of the 1960's that made me support a strong central government.

If it hadn't been for the federal government, we'd likely still have school segregation in places like Mississippi and Alabama...

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

Originally Posted by Curufin

I guess it was my research into the Civil Rights movement of the 1960's that made me support a strong central government.

If it hadn't been for the federal government, we'd likely still have school segregation in places like Mississippi and Alabama...

Well, they're bringing back segregation, here. Morons.

[Curufin]

Really? How, what, when, where, why?

*feels out of touch with things in the States*

[hectorberlioz]

Where?

Sis, this better not be a by-a-hair postulation

[Curufin]

Originally Posted by hectorberlioz

Where?

I wanted to make sure I covered everything.

[hectorberlioz]

Oh sorry Curufin, I was just reiterating your question to Sis

This is interesting. You're in Ireland, but your vote will count in Indiana? How long have you been in the land of the shamrocks?

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/p...=2008803200355


http://www.prestigeacademycs.org/about.shtml

A single gender school for males of color. A public school.

[Curufin]

Originally Posted by hectorberlioz

Oh sorry Curufin, I was just reiterating your question to Sis

This is interesting. You're in Ireland, but your vote will count in Indiana? How long have you been in the land of the shamrocks?

Since September. I go to University here, I'm working on my Master's Degree in Irish History and Politics. But I'm an American citizen, born and bred, from the sleepy river town of Madison, Indiana.

EDIT: SC&A - that doesn't sound good. I'll read up on it and let you know what I think later.

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

Originally Posted by Curufin

Since September. I go to University here, I'm working on my Master's Degree in Irish History and Politics. But I'm an American citizen, born and bred, from the sleepy river town of Madison, Indiana.

Looks lovely.

As to the school, well, it's not a ringing endorsement of our current successes, that's for sure.

[BeardofPants]

Just as an aside, IMO, I think it's better if you can get away from the 2-party system. We've been operating under a system (MMP) for quite some time, and it's worked out really well (basically any party with over 5% of the vote gets a representative number of seats in parliament). What this means is that the larger parties are tempered by the smaller, and nothing can be passed unless they either have the majority seats, or if they have enough support from the smaller parties. Currently, the government is led by a minority-left wing. They don't have majority seats, but they have the support from the smaller parties (like the green party). It works.

[hectorberlioz]

The thing about minority parties though is---they represent a minority!

The two party system forces each party to be broad enough to include people like Giuliani (pro-choice) to Sam Brownback (very much pro-life). This goes for the Democrats as well, with pro-life Democrats (Bredesen) to the most crazed pro-choice (Justice Ginsberg).

The two-party system is good because it keeps the parties in the mainstream of America (Bill, Dole, Gore, Bush jr were all left-of center, right-of-center...not very far to either side).

I'm glad you folks brought this up, because I'm making the subject of me Persuasive Speech: Why the two-party system is good.

I'll update you guys as I go through my arguments

[Curufin]

The two-party system is good because it keeps the parties in the mainstream of America (Bill, Dole, Gore, Bush jr were all left-of center, right-of-center...not very far to either side).

While this is true to an extent, I think it's also somewhat stagnating. It's difficult for new ideas to get a voice. In a parliamentary PR system like BeardofPants suggested, these smaller parties would get a smaller voice (after all, PR is, suprisingly, proportional), but their voices would still be heard. And I think it's important to hear the crazy voices on the fringes. Maybe we shouldn't listen to them all the time, and they certainly shouldn't have control of the government, but it never hurts to listen to new and different ideas.

[Earniel]

On the whole I prefer multi-party systems like our own. Yet that too can turn into a formidable mess like you wouldn't believe it! Sheesh, it only took us nine friggin' months to form a government and I'm not holding my breath over how long it'll last...

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally Posted by sisterandcousinandaunt

Not me. *shakes head* I don't like big groups. I like small groups who run big groups even less. This is a big darn country. It needs to be run by people who understand the issues at hand. The Federal government runs Washington DC. When that place is the city on the hill it was designed to be, we'll talk about expanding their control to MY neighborhood.

Hear, hear.

[The Gaffer]

Originally Posted by Curufin

While this is true to an extent, I think it's also somewhat stagnating.

Agreed. When you have two party systems, the two parties eventually come so close together so that politics becomes stale and trivial.

There's some rule of economics that two shops will end up next door to each other on the same street. This is because if the shops are at opposite ends of the street, half the people will go to one and half will go to the other. So if a shop moves towards the middle, they will still have all the people from their half, but also gain a bunch of people from the other half, because they are now closer. So the shops move towards the middle until they are right next door to one another.

It's the same in politics.

The "centre ground" might be the closest point on average to the greatest number of people, but if that's all you've got, most people are still unrepresented.

Labour and the Tories are pretty similar to one another policy-wise; Dem and Repug are too. (I'm not saying there aren't important differences.) This is a huge part of the reason why so few people vote, I'm sure of it.

[BeardofPants]

Curufin has it - it's a representative democracy in action. You can't polarise an entire country into two schools of thought, so why limit their voting choices to an essentially 2-party choice? It's not like the whack-jobs get in - you have to have 5% minimum to get seats.

[Curufin]

And if more than 5% of your country supports the whack-jobs, well, that's democracy.

[The Gaffer]

And if they are nutjobs, you have the 95% to stop them.

Here, we have a government in which the single Green member of parliament holds the balance of power, potentially.

We haven't turned into a car-free republic as a result, however.

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

How do any of you think this differs from the American system, in practice? We have 2 independent Senators, out of 50. We've had a number of 3rd party governors, and have 3rd party candidates serving in every state, pretty much.

And as someone who DOES this, I can tell you, the system is wide open. If you were registered Dems in my district, and attended 2 meetings, you'd probably be asked to be on the district committee. We elected a candidate to the House in a special election who no one on the committee knew at all...and nominated him over TWO long-time members of the committee itself, including the chair. He had the best qualifications, and he won.

It's all very well to sit by a television and complain that the US system is closed, particularly a television that doesn't even originate here. But I'm in these sodding meetings all the time, and I can tell you, it is not so. And as for partisan...I have walked into my statehouse, in several states, and politicians from all ends of the spectrum, invited me in, and listened to me. In my state, here, they buy me lunch.

The first national election I worked on was the presidential election of 1976. (I supported a minority party candidate in that election, btw.) I have never, EVER had any trouble getting my opinions heard. Sometimes people don't agree with me. But I honestly believe, if you represent what the people want, they vote for you. And that's all we're going for, isn't it?