Muslims

[inked]

Enlightenment requires knowledge. Here are two interesting sites from which one may link to knowledge in regard to

Muslims, Islam, and Denmark : http://www.supportdenmark.com/


Muslims, Islam, Jews, Christians and New York City:
http://mliccione.blogspot.com/2006/0...ard-again.html

Knowledge cuts both ways, though, and is a dangerous tool. That's always been an argument against it.

[Spock]

If it weren't for in information age, this would have been confined to Denmark. Now as each community gets information from other countries, they seem to have to emulate others reactions. It's way out of proportion but does show the intolerance is greater on Islams part when compared to similar instances concerning Judiasm or Christianity.

[Spock]

Two warnings to keep this topic on topic were ignored and thus it had been *temporarily* closed.

I now reopen this forum in hopes that the topic title will be upheld. '

If you have comments about Muslims, then place them in that topic thread which has been active long before this one started.

[Lief Erikson]

So many issues are related to this one, though. It's really hard to talk only about the cartoon issue, when it is a symptom of a bigger picture .

[Lotesse]

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

So many issues are related to this one, though. It's really hard to talk only about the cartoon issue, when it is a symptom of a bigger picture .

Word!! True that, true that.

[Spock]

As Lief and others have said, posting and private:
So many issues are related to this one, though. It's really hard to talk only about the cartoon issue, when it is a symptom of a bigger picture .

For that reason and after studying the way this topic has and appears to go, it is being merged into the "MUSLIMS" topic.

All aspects of Islam and the behaviour of its adherents will fit well under that long established topic and will aid those wanting to comment but finding scattered topics about the same general venue.

It is hoped that this will solidify opinion and commentary on this issue facing Western society.

[Lief Erikson]

Thanks for merging the threads, Spock. I think this will definitely make discussion far easier and more pleasant .

[Insidious Rex]

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

Let's just say they're not living as Muhammad and his immediate followers lived. You don't need a doctorate in Muslim theology to know that. All you need is a history book.

And i dare say that most christians are not living like the jesus of the bible did. But does that make them non-christian or wrong? Also if hundreds of millions of muslims believe a certain way then who are you OR spock OR I to tell them no you cant think that way because thats not the Islam I see in "history" books and on the news.

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by Insidious Rex

Actually what I said was "Stop trying to attach the rules of YOUR culture to everyone else in the world/universe." I said nothing about "dictating". Thats YOUR modus operendi. Not mine. What I said was meant to be viewed as an internal suggestion and not a warning against overt action. Its a suggestion on how to think so as to avoid these kinds of incidents. As long as you assume everyone should live and think exactly like you then you are bound to have conflict with other cultures. And here you see it.

Joe: Dont tell Mark what to do Al! you're not his father.
Al: dont tell ME what to do, you're not MY father.
Joe: Hypocrite! Don't tell me what I should and shouldnt be saying! you're not my father!
Al:fine, but I wasnt claiming to be anyone's father. I was only telling Mark what to do.

[Insidious Rex]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

I would say that quite a few Muslims agree with what Spock was saying. And he doesn't need to ask them - he can refer to their suicide notes and videos made before they blew up civilians along with themselves.

And "quite a few" Muslims DONT. In fact a much larger "few". So its pretty unfair and misrepresentative to constantly push that extreme minority suicide bomber terrorist thinking whenever we speak of Islam.

Furthermore, quite a few christians think its ok to kill others in the name of revenge. Quite a lot actually. Do we tar and feather the bible and the entire christian religion because of this opinion of many christians?

[HOBBIT]

where is this silent majority of peace loving Muslims?

I'm talking about the ones in Arab countries. Certainly most of the Muslims in countries like the USA are peace-loving.

[Spock]

Originally Posted by Insidious Rex

......then who are you OR spock OR I to tell them no you cant think that way because thats not the Islam I see in "history" books and on the news.

We/I am/are not saying that at all. Stop distorting and making up your own version of posted fact.

The Book is Law, the religion is The Book, the people uphold its laws.

[Spock]

Originally Posted by Insidious Rex

And "quite a few" Muslims DONT. In fact a much larger "few". So its pretty unfair and misrepresentative to constantly push that extreme minority suicide bomber terrorist thinking whenever we speak of Islam.

AGAIN, no one is pushing anything, merely stating the fact and corner stone teachings of the religion. If in your view "quite a few don't" then just go back to the post which says exactly that; referring to Orthodox, Reform, etc.

And there is NO teaching in Christianity which says it is ok to kill yourself in order to kill enemies of Christianity. The 'eye for an eye' rule went out with the New Testament.

[Insidious Rex]

Originally Posted by Spock

We/I am/are not saying that at all. Stop distorting and making up your own version of posted fact.

The Book is Law, the religion is The Book, the people uphold its laws.

Apparently except for the few hundred million of them that dont do those things... If you want to insist that they are no muslim then go right ahead.

[Insidious Rex]

Originally Posted by Spock

AGAIN, no one is pushing anything, merely stating the fact and corner stone teachings of the religion. If in your view "quite a few don't" then just go back to the post which says exactly that; referring to Orthodox, Reform, etc.

And there is NO teaching in Christianity which says it is ok to kill yourself in order to kill enemies of Christianity. The 'eye for an eye' rule went out with the New Testament.

But its IN THE BIBLE. And millions of CHRISTIANS use it and other bible references as justification for revenge killing.

[inked]

FYI

The lex talionis "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" was a limitation of revenge in a culture which would happily kill every relative to your second or third cousin once removed in response to a perceived injury or physical injury.

So the lex talionis was a restriction of revenge. The Code of Hammurabi does much the same.

[Lotesse]

Originally Posted by inked

FYI

The lex talionis "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" was a limitation of revenge in a culture which would happily kill every relative to your second or third cousin once removed in response to a perceived injury or physical injury.

So the lex talionis was a restriction of revenge. The Code of Hammurabi does much the same.

That was interesting! Thanx 4 this bit of info, Inked - very cool.

Martin Luther King, Jr. said "An eye for an eye leaves everyone blind." He had a good point - and actually, he was a pretty devout Christian. I think the eye for an eye thing is an old Judaeic law, from the Torah, no? Someone Jewish correct me on this, but I swear that's what I remember. Old Testament Law, right?

And incidentally, this thread is entitled "Muslims," implying it ought to be a discussion on understanding Muslims en masse, and their religion, and their collective motivations, etcetera, but it seems to me that this thread has gone to side A versus side B arguing about how bad and terrible Muslims are, and that really SUX, you guys. Not all the Muslims of the planet want to strap bombs to their chests and blow up the Western world.

[Lief Erikson]

Originally Posted by Insidious Rex

And i dare say that most christians are not living like the jesus of the bible did. But does that make them non-christian or wrong?

In brief, the answer is yes. In whatever way we don't conform to Jesus, we are wrong. He is the righteous standard.

Jesus said, "I am the way." He also said that people must follow him. If people refuse to follow him, or become content with keeping some parts of their lives to themselves and not surrendering those parts of themselves to Jesus, then yes, they aren't Christians. Or at least they are wrong. At best they're only part Christians. Every part of our lives must become like God. As Jesus said, "be perfect, as my Father in heaven is perfect."

Originally Posted by Insidious Rex

Also if hundreds of millions of muslims believe a certain way then who are you OR spock OR I to tell them no you cant think that way because thats not the Islam I see in "history" books and on the news.

I'm not telling them they can't think that way. I'm just saying that it's not the Islam Muhammad preached and practiced.

Originally Posted by Insidious Rex

But its IN THE BIBLE. And millions of CHRISTIANS use it and other bible references as justification for revenge killing.

And I don't know if you're aware of the fact, but in the Bible during Jesus' temptation, Satan came to him and started quoting scriptures from the Old Testament to try to lead him astray. The Bible itself readily acknowledges that scriptures can be used inappropriately.

[BeardofPants]

Originally Posted by inked

So the lex talionis was a restriction of revenge. The Code of Hammurabi does much the same.

The code of Hammurabi was the first codification of legislation that we know of, and I always had this idea that the biblical stuff was based at least in part upon the Babylonian legislation, but I could be remembering wrong. In any case, the CoH was the first to put in place a systematic means of 'justice', and part of that was the 'innocent until proven guilty' concept, which we now accept as norm. So in essence, you are correct with regards to the CoH, although it was not so much a restriction, as it was an implementation of a structure.

[Spock]

HELLO, remember I said Christianity relies on mostly the New Testament.

Islam hasn't changed it's 'rules' in centuries.