Gandalf's Staff - Page 3

Wulažg · 04-24-2002, 01:05 PM

SSSHHH! Tolkien is supposed to be perfect, he doesn't make "typos", he makes "creative changes" and "points for the readers to ponder upon"

Blackheart · 04-24-2002, 01:31 PM

Ummm. Pfft.

He probably got buried under his notes once or twice and had to be dug out more likely.

Lightice · 04-24-2002, 01:32 PM

Quote:

That and his staff was broken by Gandalf, not destroyed on purpose by the owner. Kinda like a retributive strike with a Staff of the Magi in AD&D. If you break it for retribution there is a huge explosion but otherwise it just breaks.

I don't think, that it matters what's said in AD&D. That's not something applying to LotR...
And I don't think, that there was anything special in that staff, exept that it was symbol of Istari and handy thing to focus spells with. I mean, if someone would have stolen it, it would have been just a stick. It's the carrier which gives the force, not the staff.

Blackheart · 04-24-2002, 01:44 PM

Well, if someone would have stolen it, they would have had a wizard's staff. Not just a stick.

The staves were objects of power.

It's doubtful that anyone could have used them effectively, but I doubt you'd find any wizards willing to just lay them aside... which would be the case if they were just sticks. After all you can just go pick up another stick anywhere.

Wulažg · 04-24-2002, 06:38 PM

My reference to AD&D was merely an example that many here could probably relate to, to facilitate in comrehension with the concept. It was Gandalf's staff, not just some stick. Breaking Saruman's staffotherwise would have done nothing. At the very least they are a symbol of their status(ditto with the beard but not really) and so have some innate power, in one of those subtle "magic" things that Tolkien was so fond of

Ñólendil · 04-24-2002, 10:22 PM

I think "wand" might just be taken to mean "staff" in The Hobbit.

Blackheart · 04-24-2002, 11:27 PM

In the original conception he used a wand. It's a bloody anacronism that's what it is!

Elf Girl · 04-25-2002, 08:05 AM

Maybe he decided that staffs were more effective after The Hobbit, so he went to Staffs-R-Us to get one.

***Earniel*** · 04-25-2002, 02:30 PM

What if the staff was -next to a symbol- a sort of battery? Perhaps the wizard could draw power from it when needed, or support for that matter. What'd you say?

Wulažg · 04-25-2002, 07:01 PM

He changed wand to staff because it was no longer just a children's story and staves are more mature. That and gandalf needed to look weaker as he had to die. Despite the fact that he was shooting white fire out of his hands near the end of RotK. I don't think he needed a battery then.

Radagast The Brown · 04-26-2002, 08:42 AM

I think (like Eärniel) that he did need a battery. Saruman's staff's broke down but he was anyway week. I think that this is the thing that finished the story for him. I think that days before the breaking of the staff he used it to take power, and when Gandalf broke it his powers disapeared.

viggosbeard · 04-26-2002, 09:47 AM

I thought he kept his pipe in it ...

Radagast The Brown · 04-28-2002, 02:02 PM

What pipe?? I don't understand.

Wulažg · 04-28-2002, 04:46 PM

His pipe for smoking pipeweed of course. He had a stash of the good stuff in Orthanc, remember?

viggosbeard · 04-29-2002, 03:23 AM

Maybe it wasnt Gandalfs love of the hobbits that made him a regular visit to the shire .....Longbottom leaf was stored in the tunnels at Michel Delving.

Wulažg · 04-29-2002, 05:05 PM

So was this "pipeweed" a tobacco equivalent, or was it something stronger?

*swipes some pipeweed and futily attempts to hide oversized pipe behind his back*

Occasionally Jay · 04-29-2002, 05:38 PM

I always saw the staff as a tool each wizard chose, and tied themselves up with.

They put a lot of power into it, and could draw it out--it worked just like they expected it to, and with it they could focus. Trying to use someone else's staff would be like trying to wear someone else's shoes: might work for a little while, but the size difference would give you blisters pretty darn quick.

viggosbeard · 04-30-2002, 03:30 AM

Who knows how strong pipeweed was - it should be noted though at the breaking of Isengard , Saruman had nicked it all for his army , maybe to keep them more mellow perhaps ? I mean what do Uruk Hai do on their day off , its a recipe for disaster !

Agburanar · 04-30-2002, 04:28 AM

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but when Gandalf removes most of Saruman's power he does so by breaking Saruman's staff. The staff is a symbol of the wizard's order and seems to entitle them to most of their power. It's probably like a king's sceptre or a general's baton of office.

Radagast The Brown · 04-30-2002, 02:41 PM

Quote:

originally posted by Wulažg

So was this "pipeweed" a tobacco equivalent, or was it something stronger?

*swipes some pipeweed and futily attempts to hide oversized pipe behind his back*

I don't think that the "pipe idea" is the true. I think that if he used the something as a mgical thing to take from it power, it's not a pipe.

Quote:

originally posted by occasionally Jay

I always saw the staff as a tool each wizard chose, and tied themselves up with.

They put a lot of power into it, and could draw it out--it worked just like they expected it to, and with it they could focus. Trying to use someone else's staff would be like trying to wear someone else's shoes: might work for a little while, but the size difference would give you blisters pretty darn quick.

But in the moovieSaruman used in Gandalf's staff, didn't he? (of caurse that in the book Tolkien didn't write it... but still)

04-24-2002, 01:31 PM	#42
Blackheart Elf Lord Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Darkness Posts: 1,211	Ummm. Pfft. He probably got buried under his notes once or twice and had to be dug out more likely. __________________ I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ...

04-24-2002, 01:44 PM	#44
Blackheart Elf Lord Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Darkness Posts: 1,211	Well, if someone would have stolen it, they would have had a wizard's staff. Not just a stick. The staves were objects of power. It's doubtful that anyone could have used them effectively, but I doubt you'd find any wizards willing to just lay them aside... which would be the case if they were just sticks. After all you can just go pick up another stick anywhere. __________________ I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ...

04-24-2002, 10:22 PM	#46
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	I think "wand" might just be taken to mean "staff" in The Hobbit. __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

04-24-2002, 11:27 PM	#47
Blackheart Elf Lord Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Darkness Posts: 1,211	In the original conception he used a wand. It's a bloody anacronism that's what it is! __________________ I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ...

04-25-2002, 08:05 AM	#48
Elf Girl Lurker Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Lothlórien Posts: 3,419	Maybe he decided that staffs were more effective after The Hobbit, so he went to Staffs-R-Us to get one. __________________ There's antimony, arsenic, aluminum, selenium...

04-24-2002, 01:05 PM	#41
Wulažg Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Naperville, IL Posts: 306	SSSHHH! Tolkien is supposed to be perfect, he doesn't make "typos", he makes "creative changes" and "points for the readers to ponder upon"

04-24-2002, 06:38 PM	#45
Wulažg Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Naperville, IL Posts: 306	My reference to AD&D was merely an example that many here could probably relate to, to facilitate in comrehension with the concept. It was Gandalf's staff, not just some stick. Breaking Saruman's staffotherwise would have done nothing. At the very least they are a symbol of their status(ditto with the beard but not really) and so have some innate power, in one of those subtle "magic" things that Tolkien was so fond of

04-25-2002, 02:30 PM	#49
*Earniel* The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium) Posts: 14,363	What if the staff was -next to a symbol- a sort of battery? Perhaps the wizard could draw power from it when needed, or support for that matter. What'd you say? __________________ We are not things.

04-25-2002, 07:01 PM	#50
Wulažg Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Naperville, IL Posts: 306	He changed wand to staff because it was no longer just a children's story and staves are more mature. That and gandalf needed to look weaker as he had to die. Despite the fact that he was shooting white fire out of his hands near the end of RotK. I don't think he needed a battery then.

04-26-2002, 08:42 AM	#51
Radagast The Brown Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Israel Posts: 6,975	I think (like Eärniel) that he did need a battery. Saruman's staff's broke down but he was anyway week. I think that this is the thing that finished the story for him. I think that days before the breaking of the staff he used it to take power, and when Gandalf broke it his powers disapeared. __________________ Lalala... poof! AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

04-26-2002, 09:47 AM	#52
viggosbeard Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: the banks of the Royal Blue Mersey Posts: 247	I thought he kept his pipe in it ... __________________ You cant resist her Shes in your bones Shes in your marrow And your ride home You cant avoid her Shes in the air In between molecules Of Oxygen and Carbon Dioxide Only in dreams

04-28-2002, 02:02 PM	#53
Radagast The Brown Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Israel Posts: 6,975	What pipe?? I don't understand. __________________ Lalala... poof! AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

04-28-2002, 04:46 PM	#54
Wulažg Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Naperville, IL Posts: 306	His pipe for smoking pipeweed of course. He had a stash of the good stuff in Orthanc, remember?

04-29-2002, 03:23 AM	#55
viggosbeard Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: the banks of the Royal Blue Mersey Posts: 247	Maybe it wasnt Gandalfs love of the hobbits that made him a regular visit to the shire .....Longbottom leaf was stored in the tunnels at Michel Delving. __________________ You cant resist her Shes in your bones Shes in your marrow And your ride home You cant avoid her Shes in the air In between molecules Of Oxygen and Carbon Dioxide Only in dreams

04-29-2002, 05:05 PM	#56
Wulažg Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Naperville, IL Posts: 306	So was this "pipeweed" a tobacco equivalent, or was it something stronger? swipes some pipeweed and futily attempts to hide oversized pipe behind his back

04-29-2002, 05:38 PM	#57
Occasionally Jay Enting Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 51	I always saw the staff as a tool each wizard chose, and tied themselves up with. They put a lot of power into it, and could draw it out--it worked just like they expected it to, and with it they could focus. Trying to use someone else's staff would be like trying to wear someone else's shoes: might work for a little while, but the size difference would give you blisters pretty darn quick. __________________ There's a light house in the middle of Prussia/ A white house in a, red square.. (He's a real hoopy Frodo who always knows where his towel is.)

04-30-2002, 03:30 AM	#58
viggosbeard Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: the banks of the Royal Blue Mersey Posts: 247	Who knows how strong pipeweed was - it should be noted though at the breaking of Isengard , Saruman had nicked it all for his army , maybe to keep them more mellow perhaps ? I mean what do Uruk Hai do on their day off , its a recipe for disaster ! __________________ You cant resist her Shes in your bones Shes in your marrow And your ride home You cant avoid her Shes in the air In between molecules Of Oxygen and Carbon Dioxide Only in dreams

04-30-2002, 04:28 AM	#59
Agburanar Elf Lord Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Dorset Posts: 608	I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but when Gandalf removes most of Saruman's power he does so by breaking Saruman's staff. The staff is a symbol of the wizard's order and seems to entitle them to most of their power. It's probably like a king's sceptre or a general's baton of office. __________________ I would wish, were it to any avail, that the LORD OF THE RINGS FILMS had never been wrought. ROLLING STOCK, WE'RE ROLLING STOCK!!

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
What All Was Wrong with PJ's LOTR	Wally	Lord of the Rings Movies	425	08-14-2016 08:43 AM
Gandalf's second staff	The Wizard from Milan	Lord of the Rings Movies	34	06-12-2005 08:17 PM
Staff Wanted!	Grey_Wolf	General Messages	41	05-29-2004 08:04 PM
Gandalf's staff	Gamigar	Lord of the Rings Movies	3	03-19-2003 02:49 PM
Tolkien Lovers Anonymous	Laurelyn	RPG Forum	759	08-05-2002 06:42 AM