Joking about bombs on planes... - Page 3

BeardofPants · 02-02-2004, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jerseydevil
Also BrownJenkins - I watch the French News EVERYDAY - how many times do you see it?

Have you met EVERY SINGLE FRENCH PERSON?

Pfft, I refuse to take a guy seriously who thinks that if you agree with the Bush administration, that you're anti-american.

***Valandil*** · 02-02-2004, 02:31 PM

I would venture to guess that we all stereotype groups of people to some extent - by religion, nationality, (ED: age), ethnicity - even body size and shape. It greatly simplifies life by giving us a starting point. What is then important is to find out how accurate our notions can be held across a group - and (probably most important) to allow for individual differences.

Stereotyping has some validity... it's just very important to understand its limitations.

Brownjenkins - do you think you do no stereotyping whatsoever?

Anyway - back to the matter at hand... what does this whole episode say to you, brownjenkins and gaffer? This fellow from France makes this joke, gets this particular punishment, then gets the treatment described when he gets home. How would you describe or explain it? And what do you think about his case in particular? Was he treated justly or not?

The Gaffer · 02-02-2004, 02:41 PM

Well, as I said, I think the bloke is clearly an idiot, the punishment was probably slightly over the top (though not having been there I wouldn't like to comment too definitively) and the reception he allegedly got back home is just stupid.

Of course, we all do stereotyping; it's a natural facet of human experience to generalise from one experience to another.

However, to actively seek out confirming evidence of one's stereotypes and gleefully parade it in public to whip up antipathy towards a particular group is, IMO, nasty, malicious and psychologically suspect.

Insidious Rex · 02-02-2004, 02:49 PM

So is it true all Tolkien fans are geeks?

jerseydevil · 02-02-2004, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by brownjenkins
JD ~

Stereotyping - Stereotyping is the process of assuming a person or group has one or more characteristics because most members of that group have (or are thought to have) the same characteristics. It is a simplification and generalization process that helps people categorize and understand their world, but at the same time it often leads to errors. Examples of stereotypes that are often wrong are that women are weak and submissive, while men are powerful and domineering. This may be true for some women and some men, but it is not true for all. When stereotypes are inaccurate and negative (as they often are between groups in conflict) they lead to misunderstandings which make resolving the conflict more difficult.

yes, you are stereotyping... and no, i never watch the french news

I'm not stereotyping. I don't think all french are like that and your example isn't the same. Europeans stereotype Americans all the time - but hey - that seems to be okay.

As for your comments regarding about Europeans judging us off of say Fox News - they do it all the time. The Gaffer does it (which I will get to his post) and many others do it. How many times do I have to hear about neo-conservatives and right wing fanatics on this board when they're describing America. Europe gets their news through their filtered media that shows them what they want to show and this how Europe develops their opinion of us..

***Earniel*** · 02-02-2004, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by brownjenkins
that would be like if i was a european and only watched the fox news report... would it be fair for me to claim that all americans are right-wing conservatives?

You have a valid point here, certain channels have a political or social view that leaks through the programmes.

If anyone watches Flemish TV-channels, I hope by god they don't judge us by watching VTM!

[modmode]This is becoming a bit of a loaded topic, so let me warn you in advance. Don't start personal attacks and stay civil.[/modmode]

jerseydevil · 02-02-2004, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BeardofPants
Have you met EVERY SINGLE FRENCH PERSON? Pfft, I refuse to take a guy seriously who thinks that if you agree with the Bush administration, that you're anti-american.

If you bother to read anything I say - you would know I have met a LOT of French people and thyat is what I was basing my opions on first (along with giving them the benefit of the doubt). so pfft yourself.

Oh- and I don't think that if you agree with the Bush administration that you are anti-American. Nor do I think if you disagree with them that you are anti-American. if you said nothing but negative things about America - then yes - I think you are anti-American.

***Valandil*** · 02-02-2004, 03:11 PM

IR: can't...come up... with witty reply!

All the rest of you: I think what Earniel is saying is: "No more pffting!!"

jerseydevil · 02-02-2004, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Gaffer
However, to actively seek out confirming evidence of one's stereotypes and gleefully parade it in public to whip up antipathy towards a particular group is, IMO, nasty, malicious and psychologically suspect.

I'm not seeking it out confirmation of opiniosn and I'm not gleefully parading it in public. I'm just stating what I have seen. You seem to have no problem parading your arrogant feelings toward Americans around. I watched French news because I wanted to see what they were reporting, I wanted to understand them better.

Like I have always wanted to do. For your information - I always wanted a satelite dish (the old large ones) so I could get all the news channels in the world and watch them. I discovered when a friend got a satelite dish - that you can't really do that. So I can understand other countries. I know that is something that you can't understand though and refuse to accept.

BeardofPants · 02-02-2004, 03:14 PM

Pffft!

Btw JD - have you watched Heavenly Creatures yet? You're not allowed to call PJ a hack anymore until you do!

But really, you should watch it - spend a couple of hours away from the moot, maybe work on your web page after...

jerseydevil · 02-02-2004, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Gaffer
JerseyDevil, yet again you betray yourself with your unhinged and irrational accusations. Maybe those bigoted French people you met on the chat rooms (a truly representative sample, no doubt) got their anti-American prejudice from reading your posts.

I did NOT post anything. I just saw it in their sigs and stuff. So get off your high horse- you don't even know me. You are basing your opinions on this one board and not even the whole board.

brownjenkins · 02-02-2004, 04:47 PM

we all stereotype from time to time (even me), i just believe it is a bad thing that one should admit about one's self and try to work against... try to make it the exception instead of the norm... the old "put yourself in the other person's shoes thing"

c'est la vie

on the rest... it was a bad idea to joke in that kind of situation, but a fine should have been enough

it kind of reminds me of the recent incident in south america where some angry american pilot gave an inspector the finger because he was mad about having to go through security, and got fined and thrown in jail as a result... again, stupid move, but the reaction was over the top

but we've made our bed and will have to sleep in it when it comes to international relationships, fear breeds fear

***Valandil*** · 02-02-2004, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by brownjenkins
on the rest... it was a bad idea to joke in that kind of situation, but a fine should have been enough

But the accounts mentioned claimed that he was also uncooperative after being apprehended. That may have created more doubts in the minds of the authorities who were holding him.

Dúnedain · 02-02-2004, 05:24 PM

Have I told you lately that I like pop-tarts?

brownjenkins · 02-02-2004, 05:36 PM

Quote:

But the accounts mentioned claimed that he was also uncooperative after being apprehended. That may have created more doubts in the minds of the authorities who were holding him.

i would imagine they could search him and his luggage in fairly short order... less than fifteen days at least

mmm... pop-tarts

Artanis · 02-02-2004, 05:42 PM

That French guy is a moron. You just don't joke to the stewardess about having bombs on a plane. I think he deserved well the treatment that he got (assuming that an American behaving the same way would get the same punishment too).

Dúnedain · 02-02-2004, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Artanis
That French guy is a moron. You just don't joke to the stewardess about having bombs on a plane. I think he deserved well the treatment that he got (assuming that an American behaving the same way would get the same punishment too).

Yes Americans have been and are treated the same way...

The Gaffer · 02-03-2004, 08:32 AM

Earniel: I have no desire to personalise this debate, but I've been openly accused of bigotry and arrogance and would like to respond.

Just because I disagree with some self-appointed cultural spokesperson, of limited wisdom and less tolerance, doesn't mean I have a problem with Americans; I'm confident that most of you understand that.

On the contrary, I've greatly enjoyed being friends and colleagues with many Americans over the years. EDIT: oh, and when I say "many", I mean over a hundred.

Artanis · 02-03-2004, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dúnedain
Yes Americans have been and are treated the same way...

So is this something that happens often?

Twista · 02-03-2004, 08:51 AM

Sercurity is acually still really lack. For example, beofe christmas i was going on a flight from Edinburgh to Dublin. When we got on the plane we sat opposite this man and his elderly mother. When the staff asked to see his ticket he said ' I dont have one, im just helping my mother on the plane '. So somehow, he had gotton through to the departure gate, on the plane, and without anyone noticing. Does this not sound a little bad to anyone else? Anyway he got taken off the plane and i dont know what happened...

02-02-2004, 02:31 PM	#42
*Valandil* High King at Annuminas Administrator Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Wyoming - USA Posts: 10,752	I would venture to guess that we all stereotype groups of people to some extent - by religion, nationality, (ED: age), ethnicity - even body size and shape. It greatly simplifies life by giving us a starting point. What is then important is to find out how accurate our notions can be held across a group - and (probably most important) to allow for individual differences. Stereotyping has some validity... it's just very important to understand its limitations. Brownjenkins - do you think you do no stereotyping whatsoever? Anyway - back to the matter at hand... what does this whole episode say to you, brownjenkins and gaffer? This fellow from France makes this joke, gets this particular punishment, then gets the treatment described when he gets home. How would you describe or explain it? And what do you think about his case in particular? Was he treated justly or not? Last edited by Valandil : 02-02-2004 at 02:34 PM.

02-02-2004, 02:49 PM	#44
Insidious Rex Quasi Evil Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Maryland, US Posts: 4,634	So is it true all Tolkien fans are geeks? __________________ "People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."

02-02-2004, 03:14 PM	#50
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	Pffft! Btw JD - have you watched Heavenly Creatures yet? You're not allowed to call PJ a hack anymore until you do! But really, you should watch it - spend a couple of hours away from the moot, maybe work on your web page after... __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords

02-02-2004, 04:47 PM	#52
brownjenkins Advocatus Diaboli Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Reality Posts: 3,767	we all stereotype from time to time (even me), i just believe it is a bad thing that one should admit about one's self and try to work against... try to make it the exception instead of the norm... the old "put yourself in the other person's shoes thing" c'est la vie on the rest... it was a bad idea to joke in that kind of situation, but a fine should have been enough it kind of reminds me of the recent incident in south america where some angry american pilot gave an inspector the finger because he was mad about having to go through security, and got fined and thrown in jail as a result... again, stupid move, but the reaction was over the top but we've made our bed and will have to sleep in it when it comes to international relationships, fear breeds fear __________________ Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.

02-02-2004, 05:24 PM	#54
Dúnedain High King of Númenórë Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Númenórë <--United States of America Posts: 1,947	Have I told you lately that I like pop-tarts? __________________ 'Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta!' - And those were the words that Elendil spoke when he came up out of the Sea on the wings of the wind: 'Out of the Great Sea to Middle-earth I am come. In this place will I abide, and my heirs, unto the ending of the world.' 'Then Tuor arrayed himself in the hauberk, and set the helm upon his head, and he girt himself with the sword; black were sheath and belt with clasps of silver. Thus armed he went forth from Turgon's hall, and stood upon the high terraces of Taras in the red light of the sun. None were there to see him, as he gazed westward, gleaming in silver and gold, and he knew not that in that hour he appeared as one of the Mighty of the West, and fit to be father of the kings of the Kings of Men beyond the Sea, as it was indeed his doom to be; but in the taking of those arms a change came upon Tuor son of Huor, and his heart grew great within him. And as he stepped down from the doors the swans did him reverence, and plucking each a great feather from their wings they proffered them to him, laying their long necks upon the stone before his feet; and he took the seven feathers and set them in the crest of his helm, and straightway the swans arose and flew north in the sunset, and Tuor saw them no more.' -Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin "Oh. Forgive me, fairest of all males of Entmoot...Back down, all ye other wannabe fairest males! Dunedain is the fairest!" --Linaewen

02-02-2004, 02:41 PM	#43
The Gaffer Elf Lord Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: In me taters Posts: 3,288	Well, as I said, I think the bloke is clearly an idiot, the punishment was probably slightly over the top (though not having been there I wouldn't like to comment too definitively) and the reception he allegedly got back home is just stupid. Of course, we all do stereotyping; it's a natural facet of human experience to generalise from one experience to another. However, to actively seek out confirming evidence of one's stereotypes and gleefully parade it in public to whip up antipathy towards a particular group is, IMO, nasty, malicious and psychologically suspect.

02-02-2004, 03:11 PM	#48
*Valandil* High King at Annuminas Administrator Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Wyoming - USA Posts: 10,752	IR: can't...come up... with witty reply! All the rest of you: I think what Earniel is saying is: "No more pffting!!"

02-02-2004, 05:42 PM	#56
Artanis Greatest Elven woman of Aman Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Having way too much fun with Fëanor's 7 Posts: 4,285	That French guy is a moron. You just don't joke to the stewardess about having bombs on a plane. I think he deserved well the treatment that he got (assuming that an American behaving the same way would get the same punishment too). __________________ --Life is hard, and then we die.

02-03-2004, 08:32 AM	#58
The Gaffer Elf Lord Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: In me taters Posts: 3,288	Earniel: I have no desire to personalise this debate, but I've been openly accused of bigotry and arrogance and would like to respond. Just because I disagree with some self-appointed cultural spokesperson, of limited wisdom and less tolerance, doesn't mean I have a problem with Americans; I'm confident that most of you understand that. On the contrary, I've greatly enjoyed being friends and colleagues with many Americans over the years. EDIT: oh, and when I say "many", I mean over a hundred. Last edited by The Gaffer : 02-03-2004 at 08:34 AM.

02-03-2004, 08:51 AM	#60
Twista Orodruin's Flame Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Kananaskis, AB Posts: 1,194	Sercurity is acually still really lack. For example, beofe christmas i was going on a flight from Edinburgh to Dublin. When we got on the plane we sat opposite this man and his elderly mother. When the staff asked to see his ticket he said ' I dont have one, im just helping my mother on the plane '. So somehow, he had gotton through to the departure gate, on the plane, and without anyone noticing. Does this not sound a little bad to anyone else? Anyway he got taken off the plane and i dont know what happened... __________________ Council of Entmoot - Foreign Affairs Minister - 2004-05 Visit the Ye Olde Avatar Shop and The New One Dont tell me what I cannot do Two men are on a Island, they both see a "monster", one sees a bright light, and the other sees a dark cloud My name bares no reference to the music artist.

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