01-10-2004, 01:43 PM | #41 |
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A guard at Mt. Doom would have been rather useless IMO. It has no strategical importance to station troops about it, in fact no importance whatsoever unless you wanted to destroy a certain high-quality Ring (garanteed to be unbreakable by Sauron Enterprises) and that was completely unthought of. Because who could ever think of destroying such a pretty, perfect, 'harmless' little trinket? Besides Mt. Doom lay nearly in the middle of the plain of Gorgoroth. So who in their right mind would even think about going there?
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01-10-2004, 02:00 PM | #42 |
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If that were true then Sauron woudnt expect the person flying on the eagle to destroy it would he? Most likely he'd try and capture it rather than shoot it down..
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01-10-2004, 02:13 PM | #43 |
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Except that Eagles are more spottable than two little hobbits in Elven-Cloaks. It wasn't that Sauron was unable to consider them destroying it, it just didn't occur to him until he felt Frodo claim the Ring and Mt. Doom. The eagles would have 'prompted' him towards that realization had he seen them winging their way across Mordor towards Orudruin.
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01-10-2004, 02:19 PM | #44 |
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And with the Eye of Sauron and the Palantir he might well have seen them far earlier, or even when preparing to leave. Plus passengers on top of giant eagles would have been a rather suspicious occurence,.
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01-10-2004, 02:23 PM | #45 |
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Yet the fact still remains the eagles could have helped in some manner, just to the dge of Gonder or something... as someone else has already mentioned.
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01-10-2004, 02:36 PM | #46 |
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Fyi, a comment by Tolkien in "Letters" on overuse of the Eagles in a proposed LOTR film, which may be somewhat apropos to this discussion:
"Here we meet the first intrusion of the Eagles. I think they are a major mistake of Z (American producer Morton Grady Zimmerman), and without warrant. The Eagles are a dangerous 'machine'. I have used them sparingly, and that is the absolute limit of their credibility or usefulness. The alighting of a Great Eagle of the Misty Mountains in the Shire is absurd; it also makes the later capture of G. by Saruman incredible, and spoils the account of his escape..... At the bottom of the page, the Eagles are again introduced.I feel this to be a wholly unacceptable tampering with the tale. (Tolkien's use of italics). 'Nine Walkers' and they immediately go to the air!"
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01-10-2004, 06:45 PM | #47 | |||
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In the Hobbit, the Eagles join the Battle of Five Armies when things are going badly, and turn the tide of battle. They also rescue Gandalf, Bilbo and the Dwarves from certain doom when they were trapped by the Wargs and Orcs. In Lord of the Rings, they arrive (again, later in the battle) at the battle at the Morannon, then save Frodo and Sam's lives when they would have died otherwise. I think this supports what Tuor said. The Eagles get involved rarely, and only when absolutely necessary.
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01-11-2004, 08:39 AM | #48 |
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yes i guess your rite... i think this thread is exhausted now lol... things just seem to be getting repeated.
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01-11-2004, 11:58 AM | #49 |
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Yep, that's what all of these arguments end up being. Don't even mention Balrogs.
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01-11-2004, 12:20 PM | #50 |
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What happens in the Balrog arguments? What does someoneask ' Why didnt Sauron summon on the remaining Balrogs within Middle Earth ' Or something like that?
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01-11-2004, 06:10 PM | #51 |
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Hmm, post a thread saying something like, "Did Balrogs have wings?", and see what'll happen. Something not nice. As for me, I have my opinion, and I don't participate any more. Other topics to avoid: Was Gollum a Stoor? What is the origin of Orcs (or Dragons)? Did Elves have pointed ears? Did Urûk-hai exist outside of Saruman's army? You'll be surprised what stong opinions mild-mannered Tolkienophiles have. At least we settled Who tore up the bolsters?
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01-11-2004, 07:01 PM | #52 | |
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01-11-2004, 07:11 PM | #53 |
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What if i posted 'Was there any such thing as a Slime Balrog because there are concept pictures on the TT Dvd lol'
would that stir up controvasy? lol
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01-11-2004, 10:36 PM | #54 |
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Not if I understand your premise correctly, but I might be wrong. There seems to be something about Balrogs that brings out the worst in Tolkien fans.
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01-12-2004, 12:55 AM | #55 | ||
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Aren't Balrogs servants of Morgoth? They might not listen to Sauron if he commanded them, but they do have similar goals.
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01-12-2004, 09:48 PM | #56 |
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I think that the Balrogs probably did have to obey Sauron during Morgoth's time, since he was the big boss' chief lieutenant; but wouldn't after his banishment. They were all, after all, Maiar.
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01-12-2004, 09:54 PM | #57 |
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Originally posted by Attalus
I think that the Balrogs probably did have to obey Sauron during Morgoth's time, since he was the big boss' chief lieutenant; but wouldn't after his banishment. They were all, after all, Maiar. ______________________________ And one of the nice touches in the books, which PJ missed in the movies, is the concept of evil forces (and good guys) acting independently, not only Balrogs, but also dragons (Smaug), Old Man Willow, Caradhras, etc.).
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02-01-2004, 04:54 PM | #58 |
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Yeh it a is a cool concept. But it wouldnt have been cool to read of other creatures obaying Sauron in Lotr.
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02-04-2004, 03:17 AM | #59 |
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i'd just like to put in my two cents re: twista's original comment.
if you're pursuing a "why didnt they ... instead?" question, how about why did iluvatar ever create melkor if he knew how much horror would result from his existence? wouldn't that make life so much easier for the ainur and all of eru's kiddies? why would he knowingly subject them to that? and i think the answer is more then just "it makes a better story". this is just my opinion, but i think the idea is that bliss/peace/freedom/prosperity are earned through hardship and suffering (such as the hardship of the valar, or war in general), and therefore there are no shortcuts to "righteousness". i think also that a lot of the arguments presented in terms of the story are extremely pertinent, such as the ultimate destiny of the ring, and the fate of gollum. i really don't know how pertinent or coherent my comment was - my thoughts tends to run into each other sometimes! |
02-04-2004, 03:26 AM | #60 | |
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'Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta!' - And those were the words that Elendil spoke when he came up out of the Sea on the wings of the wind: 'Out of the Great Sea to Middle-earth I am come. In this place will I abide, and my heirs, unto the ending of the world.' 'Then Tuor arrayed himself in the hauberk, and set the helm upon his head, and he girt himself with the sword; black were sheath and belt with clasps of silver. Thus armed he went forth from Turgon's hall, and stood upon the high terraces of Taras in the red light of the sun. None were there to see him, as he gazed westward, gleaming in silver and gold, and he knew not that in that hour he appeared as one of the Mighty of the West, and fit to be father of the kings of the Kings of Men beyond the Sea, as it was indeed his doom to be; but in the taking of those arms a change came upon Tuor son of Huor, and his heart grew great within him. And as he stepped down from the doors the swans did him reverence, and plucking each a great feather from their wings they proffered them to him, laying their long necks upon the stone before his feet; and he took the seven feathers and set them in the crest of his helm, and straightway the swans arose and flew north in the sunset, and Tuor saw them no more.' -Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin "Oh. Forgive me, fairest of all males of Entmoot...Back down, all ye other wannabe fairest males! Dunedain is the fairest!" --Linaewen |
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