patriotism

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Valandil
I dunno... superpower? Or Dark Age terrorists???

Well they did a lot of raping and pillaging. I think they were more just backwater rogues than superpower.

[Falagar]

Originally posted by Valandil
I dunno... superpower? Or Dark Age terrorists???

Well, we managed to conqure some of that island, and much of the English language is very much influenced by Old Norse (words like wife and die come from Old Norse).

Wedid what the English and Portugese did to America and the English/Netherlenders did to Africa: tried to conqure it...and managed a part of it...for some time...

Originally posted by jerseydevil
Well they did a lot of raping and pillaging. I think they were more just backwater rogues than superpower.

But you must admit they were darn good at it.

[Valandil]

Originally posted by Falagar
Well, we managed to conqure some of that island, and much of the English language is very much influenced by the Norwegian (words like wife come from Old Norse).

Wedid what the English and Portugese did to America and the English/Netherlenders did to Africa: tried to sonqure it...and managed a part of it...for some time...

Hmmm, quite true! There's also the whole 'Russia' thing... (or was that more Swedish? I tend to think of the various Viking groups as sort of a single power, in some regards).

Now - for a bigtime mover and shaker, it IS hard to beat the old Norwegian, Harald Hardrada! Whattaguy!!!

[Valandil]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
Well they did a lot of raping and pillaging.

Once was told that the Norwegians are the reason that the Irish have red hair and green eyes!

[Ornelírë Mistë]

so people are patriotic enough to wear stuff with their flags on it, in another country. it's kinda mean to assume they are "attacking" the people of the country b/c of it. i can imagine them being obnoxious, but i bet they would be so anyway, even if they didnt have a flag on their shirt or something. they are not obnoxious or aggressive because of their patriotism; patriotism is the object of their attitudes. and this is all supposing they are such.

why does it matter?

[Bacchus]

A thought experiment-

Estimate the life expectancy of, say, a Yemenese national displaying a Yemenese flag in the US as opposed to an American national displaying an American flag in Yemen.

I bet the two estimates are markedly different.

[Ornelírë Mistë]

comparing other countries' reactions to flag-wearing with ours doesn't prove anything. you say it as if we are superior in this way. for one thing, Yemen's media may be controlled by their government, which could dislike america. this could be true for other countries. so people are only getting one side of the story. so you can't really blame them. and in some news stories, we may be getting only half of the realy story. and also, maybe not everyone in Yemen hates us.

Basically, my point is is this: base your opinions on the individuals you have met.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by OrnelÃ*rë Mistë
comparing other countries' reactions to flag-wearing with ours doesn't prove anything. you say it as if we are superior in this way. for one thing, Yemen's media may be controlled by their government, which could dislike america. this could be true for other countries. so people are only getting one side of the story. so you can't really blame them. and in some news stories, we may be getting only half of the realy story. and also, maybe not everyone in Yemen hates us.

HIs point is - you will freely be allowed to fly the Yemen flag here - but will most likely get killed for flying the American flag in Yemen.

Basically, my point is is this: base your opinions on the individuals you have met.

My statements are based on MANY individuals I have come across and eaten with.

[Ornelírë Mistë]

i understood his point. hence why i stated what i did about the media possibly influencing the people's opinions. and even if they hate us, they are not necessarily bad people. my point was that maybe there's a reason for their their resentment, and it may not be their fault.
just because you have eaten a meal with someone doesnt mean you know them extensively enough to make such a judgement.

[Ornelírë Mistë]

Extreme patriotism is a uniquely American phenomenon.

Not especially. Many Americans are patriotic nowadays. But it's just their take on events happening, combined with who they are and their beliefs etc, that make them feel this way. in any country you could find patriotic people. so what there happen to be many from here. they have reasons you may or may not agree with; i am sure many of those feelings have nothing to do with what is going on in Iraq and such matters. the word "uniquely" is what has made people respond so forcefully to your post.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by OrnelÃ*rë Mistë
just because you have eaten a meal with someone doesnt mean you know them extensively enough to make such a judgement.

So - tell me then - how much time does it take YOU to get to know people's attitudes and how they feel about things? Usually when people (British who I knew) repeatedly refer to the US as the "colonies" or as in the French woman's case at the Grand Canyon goes around saying how uncultured Americans are and how she hates the US - I sort of get an idea of how they feel. I don't know - maybe I misunderstood the condescending attitude.

As for our patriotism - I have had many people say they hate our patriotism and are completely turned off by it. Not that I care - it's their opinion. I don't judge their patriotism.

[Hemel]

My statements are based on MANY individuals I have come across and eaten with.

With respect, JD, I have to suggest also that the interpretations and understandings one puts on particular situations depend as much, if not more, on one's own subjectivity as on the author.

[Bacchus]

Originally posted by OrnelÃ*rë Mistë
comparing other countries' reactions to flag-wearing with ours doesn't prove anything. you say it as if we are superior in this way. for one thing, Yemen's media may be controlled by their government, which could dislike america. this could be true for other countries. so people are only getting one side of the story. so you can't really blame them. and in some news stories, we may be getting only half of the realy story. and also, maybe not everyone in Yemen hates us.

Basically, my point is is this: base your opinions on the individuals you have met.

Although it is the highest form of political incorrectness to actually say so, I do in fact firmly believe that the fact that a Yemenese national is far safer in the US than an American national in Yemen speaks volumes to the relative merits of the two cultures.

[Bacchus]

I came across an interesting article that sums up American answers to European criticims.

[GrayMouser]

Originally posted by Bacchus
Although it is the highest form of political incorrectness to actually say so, I do in fact firmly believe that the fact that a Yemenese national is far safer in the US than an American national in Yemen speaks volumes to the relative merits of the two cultures.

Umm.. how many Americans recognize a Yemeni flag?

If it said Allahu Akbar on the T-shirt , and an American asked the wearer to interpret it...

How safe is an American in Indonesia compared to an Indonesian in America? I'd give odds.

[Bacchus]

Me too. The Indonesian is much safer.

I'll admit that I can't describe the Yemeni flag, but I do know the meaning of Allahu Akbar. (God is Great). I even agree with the sentiment.

Americans have a proud tradition of religious tolerance. Muslims are infinitely safer practicing their religion here than are Jews or Christians doing do in predominately Muslim societies.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Hemel
With respect, JD, I have to suggest also that the interpretations and understandings one puts on particular situations depend as much, if not more, on one's own subjectivity as on the author.

No = I think I pretty much understoof what the people who I was with were saying. It doesn't take much interpretation. You weren't there - so you can NOT judge.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Bacchus
Americans have a proud tradition of religious tolerance. Muslims are infinitely safer practicing their religion here than are Jews or Christians doing do in predominately Muslim societies.

As is demonstrated by the fact that muslims can go to school freely with their coverings, as well as muslim women refusing services from a male doctor - unlike currently in France.

[sun-star]

Originally posted by OrnelÃ*rë Mistë
Basically, my point is is this: base your opinions on the individuals you have met.

You really think that's a good idea? What if you only meet one person from a particular country, and they're obnoxious - do you then hold the opinion that everyone in that country is the same? That's the theory that makes jerseydevil think everyone in the UK calls the USA "the colonies", because he met some people who said that. It really just encourages generalisations.

I would be more in favour of accepting that you can't generalise about an entire country, no matter how many of them you've met

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by sun-star
You really think that's a good idea? What if you only meet one person from a particular country, and they're obnoxious - do you then hold the opinion that everyone in that country is the same? That's the theory that makes jerseydevil think everyone in the UK calls the USA "the colonies", because he met some people who said that. It really just encourages generalisations.

I would be more in favour of accepting that you can't generalise about an entire country, no matter how many of them you've met

Well I don't automatically consider anyone from Britain feeling that way - but the majority of British I have come in contact with though do act that way or refer to the United States as the colonies (which even happened while they were IN the United States eating lunch with me). It's a generalization based on percentages of experience. It doesn't mean I think everyone is like that, but when the majority of British and Europeans a person meets feel that way - it does indicate that possibly more feel that way than don't.