Ancient Cultures - Page 3

Insidious Rex · 01-20-2004, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Falagar
All I can remember is that the first warriors to fight with iron-weapons in Europe were the Celts (if I remember correctly) who swept over Europe, they had invented a way to form weapons from iron.

Wasnt it the Hittites who first made things out of iron?

Falagar · 01-20-2004, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
Wasnt it the Hittites who first made things out of iron?

My mistake (but wasn't the Hittites the people who later became Celts?).

Insidious Rex · 01-20-2004, 05:42 PM

Could be. It all gets complicated when you go that far back.

jerseydevil · 01-20-2004, 05:44 PM

I just wanted to say that the distruction of the Library of Alexandria was a huge loss to the world. The wonton destruction of so much knowledge and history - lost forever.

***Valandil*** · 01-20-2004, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jerseydevil
I just wanted to say that the distruction of the Library of Alexandria was a huge loss to the world. The wonton destruction of so much knowledge and history - lost forever.

Was that destroyed by man or nature? And when? Isn't the site now located several hundred yards out into the Mediterranean Sea? Always a problem when looking for reading material...

Falagar · 01-20-2004, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Valandil
Was that destroyed by man or nature? And when? Isn't the site now located several hundred yards out into the Mediterranean Sea? Always a problem when looking for reading material...

I believe it was burned by the Christians, for teaching heresy.

jerseydevil · 01-20-2004, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Falagar
I believe it was burned by the Christians.

It was burned to the ground - but I can't remember exactly who. The ruins are now in the middle of the Mediterranean Sea. They are now in the process of building a new Library of Alexandria that will supposedly be the glory of the modern world.

***Earniel*** · 01-20-2004, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jerseydevil
I just wanted to say that the distruction of the Library of Alexandria was a huge loss to the world. The wonton destruction of so much knowledge and history - lost forever.

Oh, don't remind me. That can nearly make me cry. Just imagine what was stored there! Just imagine running through those shelves lined with papyri and documents, trying to decide what to save from the fire. *sigh* Just imagine being able to see it in its old glory....

What a waste it was.

Draken · 01-21-2004, 09:31 AM

Gibbon laid the blame squarely with a Christian mob acting under the leadership of the local patriarch. This itself contradicted a theory that the Arabs destroyed the library as late as the (I think) 7th Century.

But from what I've read it seems likelier that Caesar's forces burned it (accidentally) after torching the ships in the harbour during the civil war with Pompey.

Either way, was a tragic loss.

***Valandil*** · 01-21-2004, 10:15 AM

Wow! Interesting (and quite surprising) that there's even a major question about just when the destruction of the library occurred... with a 700 year range!

Draken · 01-21-2004, 10:55 AM

Isn't it just? I don't think the Arabian story ever had much credibility. Alexandria continued to be centre of learning until long after Caeser's time, but a 5th century patriarch whipped up an anti-Classical knowledge hysteria among Christians that led to the murder of it's last philosopher, Hypatia. I think a lot of people muddle the two events.

Also there is the confusion that there were musuems, temples etc in the city that had their own libraries, each of which could have been destroyed in any number of upheavals that happened to the city.

But in terms of THE library, it seems people were writing about it in the past tense by the 1st century AD. I'm no Classicist so I'm just commenting on what I've learned at second hand, but it looks like Caeser's the leading suspect!

Grey_Wolf · 01-21-2004, 12:09 PM

i've read that it was an emperor called Augustus that began the destruction of the Library, but he only half finished the demolition, then the arabs came and finished the job.

Draken · 01-21-2004, 12:37 PM

A long-drawn out destruction - six centuries! The Arab story is the weakest, it largely comes from a medieval Christian bishop and can be seen as an early bit of propaganda! The story is also full of fanciful details like the library taking 6 months to burn.

As to Roman emperors, take your pick, loads of them sacked/attacked the city. Julius Caesar and Augustus were there within a few years of each other, so I'd guess it's going to be hard to work out exactly which was responsible.

Grey_Wolf · 01-21-2004, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Draken
A long-drawn out destruction - six centuries! The Arab story is the weakest, it largely comes from a medieval Christian bishop and can be seen as an early bit of propaganda! The story is also full of fanciful details like the library taking 6 months to burn.

As to Roman emperors, take your pick, loads of them sacked/attacked the city. Julius Caesar and Augustus were there within a few years of each other, so I'd guess it's going to be hard to work out exactly which was responsible.

Yeah, the trail is stonecold.

***Earniel*** · 01-31-2004, 10:39 AM

Is anyone as excited about the discovery of the Nebra-disk as I am?

Isn't she just stunning?

The oldest sky-disk made by man found to this date. Some 3600 years old. Recovered from smugglers in Germany!

A larger photo can be found here.

Falagar · 01-31-2004, 10:44 AM

Which culture is it from? Egyptian? A very nice piece of work that is!

***Earniel*** · 01-31-2004, 10:54 AM

No! Bronze-aged European!

Egyptians in Germany? Somebody has a lousy sense of geography...

Wait, I'll try to dig up some info....

The story of the Nebra-disk

Bronze Disk and Oldest Observatory Discovered in Germany

The story behind the nebra-disk

EDIT: Oh, and the January-issue of National geographic features it too.

Falagar · 01-31-2004, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eärniel
No! Bronze-aged European!

Egyptians in Germany? Somebody has a lousy sense of geography...

But you said it was found on German smugglers so I assumed it had been stolen from somewhere and smuggeled into Germany.

***Earniel*** · 01-31-2004, 11:05 AM

Yes, sorry. I realise I had put it rather ambiguous.

Hemel · 02-01-2004, 03:09 PM

I was wildly excited over this, for no end of reasons. I still keep thinking about it. There was a television programme on about it over here last week - the person who dared speak to me during it nearly got murdered, so engrossed and enthralled was I. No one, but no one, was going to distract me from that screen!

But how I hate looters. My view is that knowledge like this belongs to all of us, and looters deprive us of it. They also disturb all the contextual deposits irretrievably, which means again that much information is for ever lost. TG most metal detectorists are responsible, and call in interpreters when they find things.

01-20-2004, 05:42 PM	#43
Insidious Rex Quasi Evil Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Maryland, US Posts: 4,634	Could be. It all gets complicated when you go that far back. __________________ "People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."

01-20-2004, 05:44 PM	#44
jerseydevil I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Plainsboro, NJ Posts: 9,431	I just wanted to say that the distruction of the Library of Alexandria was a huge loss to the world. The wonton destruction of so much knowledge and history - lost forever. __________________ Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

01-21-2004, 09:31 AM	#49
Draken Elf Lord Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Durham, England Posts: 694	Gibbon laid the blame squarely with a Christian mob acting under the leadership of the local patriarch. This itself contradicted a theory that the Arabs destroyed the library as late as the (I think) 7th Century. But from what I've read it seems likelier that Caesar's forces burned it (accidentally) after torching the ships in the harbour during the civil war with Pompey. Either way, was a tragic loss. __________________ I'm beset by self-doubt ....or am I?

01-21-2004, 10:55 AM	#51
Draken Elf Lord Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Durham, England Posts: 694	Isn't it just? I don't think the Arabian story ever had much credibility. Alexandria continued to be centre of learning until long after Caeser's time, but a 5th century patriarch whipped up an anti-Classical knowledge hysteria among Christians that led to the murder of it's last philosopher, Hypatia. I think a lot of people muddle the two events. Also there is the confusion that there were musuems, temples etc in the city that had their own libraries, each of which could have been destroyed in any number of upheavals that happened to the city. But in terms of THE library, it seems people were writing about it in the past tense by the 1st century AD. I'm no Classicist so I'm just commenting on what I've learned at second hand, but it looks like Caeser's the leading suspect! __________________ I'm beset by self-doubt ....or am I?

01-21-2004, 12:37 PM	#53
Draken Elf Lord Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Durham, England Posts: 694	A long-drawn out destruction - six centuries! The Arab story is the weakest, it largely comes from a medieval Christian bishop and can be seen as an early bit of propaganda! The story is also full of fanciful details like the library taking 6 months to burn. As to Roman emperors, take your pick, loads of them sacked/attacked the city. Julius Caesar and Augustus were there within a few years of each other, so I'd guess it's going to be hard to work out exactly which was responsible. __________________ I'm beset by self-doubt ....or am I?

01-21-2004, 10:15 AM	#50
*Valandil* High King at Annuminas Administrator Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Wyoming - USA Posts: 10,752	Wow! Interesting (and quite surprising) that there's even a major question about just when the destruction of the library occurred... with a 700 year range!

01-21-2004, 12:09 PM	#52
Grey_Wolf Elf Lord Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mirkwood, well actually I live in North-west Scania, Sweden Posts: 9,481	i've read that it was an emperor called Augustus that began the destruction of the Library, but he only half finished the demolition, then the arabs came and finished the job.

01-31-2004, 10:39 AM	#55
*Earniel* The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium) Posts: 14,363	Is anyone as excited about the discovery of the Nebra-disk as I am? Isn't she just stunning? The oldest sky-disk made by man found to this date. Some 3600 years old. Recovered from smugglers in Germany! A larger photo can be found here. __________________ We are not things.

01-31-2004, 10:44 AM	#56
Falagar Death of Mooters and [Entmoot] Internal Affairs Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Oslo, Norway Posts: 2,870	Which culture is it from? Egyptian? A very nice piece of work that is! __________________ Fëanor - Innocence incarnated Still, Aikanáro 'till the Last battle.

01-31-2004, 10:54 AM	#57
*Earniel* The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium) Posts: 14,363	No! Bronze-aged European! Egyptians in Germany? Somebody has a lousy sense of geography... Wait, I'll try to dig up some info.... The story of the Nebra-disk Bronze Disk and Oldest Observatory Discovered in Germany The story behind the nebra-disk EDIT: Oh, and the January-issue of National geographic features it too. __________________ We are not things.

01-31-2004, 11:05 AM	#59
*Earniel* The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium) Posts: 14,363	Yes, sorry. I realise I had put it rather ambiguous. __________________ We are not things.

02-01-2004, 03:09 PM	#60
Hemel Elven Warrior Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: on the boats Posts: 264	I was wildly excited over this, for no end of reasons. I still keep thinking about it. There was a television programme on about it over here last week - the person who dared speak to me during it nearly got murdered, so engrossed and enthralled was I. No one, but no one, was going to distract me from that screen! But how I hate looters. My view is that knowledge like this belongs to all of us, and looters deprive us of it. They also disturb all the contextual deposits irretrievably, which means again that much information is for ever lost. TG most metal detectorists are responsible, and call in interpreters when they find things.

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