Paris Is Burning - Page 3

trolls' bane · 11-13-2005, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lotesse

It is nothing like the French revolution. Have you read this thread through, or watche4d or read any of the actual news reports, rohirrim TR? Please quit trying to kill all the threads with nonsense, please.

Nope, instead it's more or less like Sixty One.

rohirrim TR · 11-13-2005, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trolls' bane

Nope, instead it's more or less like Sixty One.

yeah, good point. bad comparison on my part.

Lotesse · 11-13-2005, 09:26 PM

What are you two referring to? The Parisian student riots? I thought that was in 1968.

Were there riots in '61 as well?

rohirrim TR · 11-13-2005, 09:34 PM

well my dates might be off, but i thought he referring to the berkely riots. maybe i'm all wet.

trolls' bane · 11-13-2005, 09:34 PM

You know, the first Martian revoloution in 2061? Never mind, just a metaphor to Kim Stanley Robinson's Red MArs.

rohirrim TR · 11-13-2005, 09:38 PM

those riots yes, well, uhh yeah....back to paris, and my berkely dates are off i'm pretty sure have to research that again.

Lotesse · 11-13-2005, 09:39 PM

Here is a fascinating Paris history-in-a-nutshell article from economist.com

http://www.economist.com/cities/find...=Facts-History

and here's a no-holds-barred frank (pun intended!

) article about recent events...

http://****france.com/read.html?post...plies=3&page=1

That bottom link is hidden by the bad-word hiding mechanism of the moot, so if you want to see the article type in the "f" word where the four *s are, and you'll get the link up.

Lotesse · 11-13-2005, 10:09 PM

- excerpt from a New York Times article -

"Things changed when the foreigners began moving in," Mrs. Chenadec said. "There was a lack of respect."

Most of the rioters, however, are children of immigrants who were born in France. On Sunday, a band of 200 youths threw rocks and gasoline bombs and fired shotguns at the police in a housing project in Grigny, a gritty suburb south of Paris. Two policemen were hospitalized with injuries from shotgun pellets, the authorities said.

On Monday, a knot of young men gathered at the entrance to the project as the sun began to set. Empty tear-gas canisters littered the pavement, which was blackened by the ruins of burned cars. None of the men said they had seen the shooting, but they said anger toward the police was running high.

"It's the attitude of the police; they insult us," said a man of Algerian origin who gave his name as Medhi. "People here don't feel like they're a part of the political system. Their only recourse is to violence."

you can read the whole article at this link:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/08/in...l?pagewanted=2

As a side-note, I will respectfully ask both trolls' bane and rohirrim TR to PLEASE stop spamming this thread with non-relevant subject matter. How many times must I ask politely for you guys to quit it? It's unfair to the rest of us out here who might have something interesting and relevant to input, and not only that but all the spamming kills the thread and it's already happening here to my thread, NO MORE STUPID SPAMMING DAMMIT. Thank you 4 your kind cooperation.

**Nurvingiel** · 11-14-2005, 01:17 AM

I don't think I'll bother with an article from *cough* "screw" france dot com (

), but I'd love to read the article from The Economist. I couldn't get the link to work though. I think this is because Entmoot automatically chopped it down to size. If you format it as a link then I think it will work.

Link format: Copy and paste.
[url=http://www.linkgoeshere.com]Link Name[/url]

I did look at the article from the New York Times. Apparently, the violence has also spread to Brussels and Berlin. Belgium borders France to the north, and Brussels isn't really that far from France. But while Germany borders France to the east, Berlin is really far from the French border! However, I don't think distance is the only influence here. I think similairly disgruntled people might have been inspired (for lack of a better word) by the French riots.

Maybe the rioters really do feel violence is their only recourse. I also notice the article refers to "groups of men". Is it mostly men rioting here? If so, why? If that was true, then women do feel they have other options ie. non-violence. Why not women?

I realize this is a fairly large generalization, but if the rioters are mostly men, then the above questions should be asked.

[off topic]
I second bafflement of the spamming of two otherwise very fine Mooters. Rohirrim TR and TB, you guys normally rock. What the heck is this? Don't you think it's really insensitive to spam a thread discussing riots that have been going on over two weeks, and span an entire country? People are dying in France, so obviously no one cares about the antics of EDDIE or whatever in this thread. Take it to the Café where you are always welcome.

[/off topic]

Spock · 11-14-2005, 07:56 AM

Well, early Monday, the news here is reporting the French Cabinet has extended the state of emergency for another 3 months. Perhaps they think they can win this and be 1 for zero in the past 100 years.

**Nurvingiel** · 11-14-2005, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spock

Well, early Monday, the news here is reporting the French Cabinet has extended the state of emergency for another 3 months. Perhaps they think they can win this and be 1 for zero in the past 100 years.

I don't get it Spock, 1 for zero in what? Declaring a state of emergency? What do you mean by 1 for zero anyway?

Spock · 11-14-2005, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

I don't get it Spock, 1 for zero in what?

....sigh....If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you."......

***Tessar*** · 11-14-2005, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spock

....sigh....If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you."......

Yes but you didn't answer her inquisitiveness

.

Spock · 11-14-2005, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tessar

Yes but you didn't answer her inquisitiveness

.

What? and you're too sick to figure it out too

rohirrim TR · 11-14-2005, 06:03 PM

i believe what spock is referring to is france's talent, that is, the only thing that france is good at is hosting invasions.

Tamuril Sirfalas · 11-14-2005, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Gaffer

(It should also be said that there is a heavy dose of criminality involved too.)

Unfortunately, it could be that riots ARE the answer. As in, the only way to get mainstream society to take these problems seriously is to torch the place.

How seriously do we think they would be taken if they'd had a march through Paris instead?

violence and riots are NOT the answer. i mean, look at hitler and ww2...they didnot get all that far they just killed people and died in the end.

Insidious Rex · 11-14-2005, 06:08 PM

Well probably some of the confusion arrizes from the fact that its pretty difficult to be "one for zero". Zero (or one) for 1000 might have been more along the lines of the standard french bashing humor he was aiming for.

Lotesse · 11-14-2005, 06:12 PM

Here you are, Nurvingiel; the link again for the Economist article:

http://www.economist.com/cities/find...=Facts-History

I read this or heard this statistic the other day - there are 40 million some-ought people in France, 8 million of whom are Muslim peoples who've immigrated or descend from immigrants coming from North African countries. That is an eNORmous segment of the population to be non-integrated within the society. Why do they move to France if France so obviously wishes not to integrate them into its society, is what I wonder.

***Tessar*** · 11-14-2005, 06:15 PM

No, I understand what you're talking about Spock. I'm saying you should explain it to Nurv. if you want to use Gandalf's quote

.

Tamuril Sirfalas · 11-14-2005, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butterbeer

well, maybe they could have had a sunday jamboree get together and a good ol' chin wag about it? ... maybe some cucumber (and garlic) sandwiches and sent a letter to the 'le monde'?

...you know the world can be VERY real ... very nasty and very prejudiced .... history teaches us Tamuril (very educational the moot ain't it??

) ..that in fact violence and the use of arms is one of the few things that can and does bring about change ...

Nurv ... it may not be an answer we like to see, or recommend - but IF it is the only answer available; the lack of choice rather negates the whole question/answer thing ...

i say it is good because it makes the french look like idiots (always a bonus point there

)

but mainly because the french need a kick up their arrogant and racist nationalisitic backsides ...

yes, the moot is very educated sure but violence isnt the greatest thing guns ang fists are not the good way to go around things.* gets irritated and shoots a bystander* lol just kidding! and yes the french are pretty arrogant and racist i would know because my ancestry includes french!

11-13-2005, 09:26 PM	#43
Lotesse of the House of Fëanor Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 6,150	What are you two referring to? The Parisian student riots? I thought that was in 1968. Were there riots in '61 as well? __________________ Few people have the imagination for reality. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

11-13-2005, 09:34 PM	#45
trolls' bane Entmoot Secretary of the Treasury Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Campsite-by-Giraffe Posts: 5,408	You know, the first Martian revoloution in 2061? Never mind, just a metaphor to Kim Stanley Robinson's Red MArs. __________________ KI6PFA Amateur Radio Operator

11-13-2005, 09:39 PM	#47
Lotesse of the House of Fëanor Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 6,150	Here is a fascinating Paris history-in-a-nutshell article from economist.com http://www.economist.com/cities/find...=Facts-History and here's a no-holds-barred frank (pun intended! ) article about recent events... http://***france.com/read.html?post...plies=3&page=1 That bottom link is hidden by the bad-word hiding mechanism of the moot, so if you want to see the article type in the "f" word where the four s are, and you'll get the link up. __________________ Few people have the imagination for reality. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Last edited by Lotesse : 11-13-2005 at 10:41 PM.

11-13-2005, 10:09 PM	#48
Lotesse of the House of Fëanor Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 6,150	- excerpt from a New York Times article - "Things changed when the foreigners began moving in," Mrs. Chenadec said. "There was a lack of respect." Most of the rioters, however, are children of immigrants who were born in France. On Sunday, a band of 200 youths threw rocks and gasoline bombs and fired shotguns at the police in a housing project in Grigny, a gritty suburb south of Paris. Two policemen were hospitalized with injuries from shotgun pellets, the authorities said. On Monday, a knot of young men gathered at the entrance to the project as the sun began to set. Empty tear-gas canisters littered the pavement, which was blackened by the ruins of burned cars. None of the men said they had seen the shooting, but they said anger toward the police was running high. "It's the attitude of the police; they insult us," said a man of Algerian origin who gave his name as Medhi. "People here don't feel like they're a part of the political system. Their only recourse is to violence." you can read the whole article at this link: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/08/in...l?pagewanted=2 As a side-note, I will respectfully ask both trolls' bane and rohirrim TR to PLEASE stop spamming this thread with non-relevant subject matter. How many times must I ask politely for you guys to quit it? It's unfair to the rest of us out here who might have something interesting and relevant to input, and not only that but all the spamming kills the thread and it's already happening here to my thread, NO MORE STUPID SPAMMING DAMMIT. Thank you 4 your kind cooperation. __________________ Few people have the imagination for reality. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Last edited by Lotesse : 11-13-2005 at 10:14 PM.

11-14-2005, 07:56 AM	#50
Spock An enigma in a conundrum Join Date: Oct 1999 Posts: 6,476	Well, early Monday, the news here is reporting the French Cabinet has extended the state of emergency for another 3 months. Perhaps they think they can win this and be 1 for zero in the past 100 years. __________________ Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

11-14-2005, 06:08 PM	#57
Insidious Rex Quasi Evil Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Maryland, US Posts: 4,634	Well probably some of the confusion arrizes from the fact that its pretty difficult to be "one for zero". Zero (or one) for 1000 might have been more along the lines of the standard french bashing humor he was aiming for. __________________ "People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."

11-14-2005, 06:12 PM	#58
Lotesse of the House of Fëanor Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 6,150	Here you are, Nurvingiel; the link again for the Economist article: http://www.economist.com/cities/find...=Facts-History I read this or heard this statistic the other day - there are 40 million some-ought people in France, 8 million of whom are Muslim peoples who've immigrated or descend from immigrants coming from North African countries. That is an eNORmous segment of the population to be non-integrated within the society. Why do they move to France if France so obviously wishes not to integrate them into its society, is what I wonder. __________________ Few people have the imagination for reality. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

11-14-2005, 06:15 PM	#59
*Tessar* Master and Wielder of the Cardboard Harp of Gondor Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: IM IN UR POSTZ, EDITIN' UR WURDZ Posts: 6,433	No, I understand what you're talking about Spock. I'm saying you should explain it to Nurv. if you want to use Gandalf's quote .

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