08-18-2002, 07:39 PM | #41 | |
Queen of Nargothrond
Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Akron, Ohio - USA
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I care very much about underage smoking. I have a son you know. He happens to have two smoking parents, and hates smoking as much as you. Right now, NO ONE! smokes in my house including me. Anyone that wants to smoke goes outside, rain or shine, summer or winter, day or night. I do not disagree with some of your points, but eliminating smoking completely from society instead of the government finding a better way to regulate smoking, its effect, and its costs is not the answer. Some smokers that started in childhood are as much a victim to this problem as non-smokers. Much of this blame lies with the government, some with the industry which is government regulated, but none lies with the consumer, only if the smoker is an inconsiderate one. As for kids smoking, well, I know some that have non-smoking parents that smoke. I have seen too how they will congrogate outside the neighborhood convenient store waiting for someone over eighteen to go in and buy cigarettes for them. They pull the same stunts with alcohol with a lesser degree of success cause the age limit is higher, so I can't say that young people are helping your cause especially when laws are in place to protect them and let's face it, they get kids that are eighteen to do the dirty work for them. The law says you are an adult at eighteen. Well, not in my book. Not in mind anyway. Not a whole lot of difference between 16 and 18. I think the responsibility has to lie with several people. Parents, teachers, the government, the industry, retailers, smokers, non-smokers, and teens. When everyone can work together on a problem that effects everyone, not just non-smokers, then maybe the problem could be solved to everyones satisfaction. Who cares where the blame lies. We need to stop all the finger pointing and find a solution. |
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08-18-2002, 10:00 PM | #42 |
the greg the admin
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: NJ
Posts: 2,101
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I don't have much intelligent to add to this conversation. I don't really like smoking, and I think JD had a good idea with non-smokers suing smokers for second hand smoke.
Although when I'm around 70 or 80 years old, I intend to start pipe smoking. |
08-19-2002, 12:46 AM | #43 |
Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate
Join Date: Jan 2002
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Posts: 4,547
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Once my old biology teacher suggested if we want to smoke and drink and use all sorts of drugs, wait until we're 70 or 80
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08-19-2002, 02:49 PM | #44 |
Long lost mooter
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Florida
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Okay, since I know Blackheart has a sense of humor, I will risk his wrath to make this really bad joke:
Maybe he should change his name to BlackLUNG! Bah ha ha... I am on the anti smoking side. Forget the cancer from second hand smoke ( ), I hate smelling like smoke after I've gone out. It makes your clothes and hair reek of the foul stench. There are ashtrays restaurants could use that suck in the smoke, but I don't know how well they work. |
08-19-2002, 06:13 PM | #45 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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08-20-2002, 12:24 PM | #46 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 112
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Well I think that people who smoke indanger other peoples lives. So I think smoking should only be done in the privacy of homes. Because the people who smoke are only killing themselves. If they don't want to live it opens up room for people who want to.
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08-20-2002, 12:48 PM | #47 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Darkness
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Your friend has a very difficult road in front of him. It's not at all easy to recover for heroin users. I know a bit about it. However, you should refrain form refering to it as stupid. If your freind is addicted, then he's afflicted by a disease. If someone had schizophrenia, or cancer, or diabetes, would you say they were stupid? The problem is many people use mood altering substances will little or no ill effect. Just like many people can eat a lot of high sucrose foods without developing diabetes. Unfortunately by the time you discover there's a problem, it's a bit late to avoid the consequences.
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I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... |
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08-20-2002, 01:11 PM | #48 |
Bard of Mangled Songs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: West of Middle Earth...oh alright...Manila
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Most of you guys are lucky you live in an area where emission levels of vehicles are strictly controlled. Where I live, I'd most probably die because of that and not because of 2nd hand smoke. Lotsa big smoke-belching vehicles here.
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Power attracts the corruptible. Absolute power attracts the absolutely corruptible. -Missionaria Protectiva, Frank Herbert Accio, Ash Nazg! Elennuru s?*la lúmenn' omentielvo (The Death Star shines on the hour of our meeting) - Darth Arathorn Put aside the ranger... Start looking for Mumakil action figures... |
08-20-2002, 01:19 PM | #49 | ||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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A couple of years ago he called me from Eugene Oregon - said if he didn't get out of there that he would be dead. I asked when he wanted to leave - he said now, tonight. I got him a flight that day from Portland Oregon to New Jersey. I also called a taxi company and paid his cab fare from Eugene to Porland (about a 3 hour drive). Quote:
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08-20-2002, 01:30 PM | #50 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
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A little bit off subject from smoking.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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08-20-2002, 01:34 PM | #51 | |||||||||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Darkness
Posts: 1,211
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Legislation looks like a fast way to get results, unfortunately it has proven notoriously ineffective, and even harmful, in the past. Quote:
If you're on the road however, you can't really spot someone who is impaired, unless they are obviously weaving. If you're sitting next to the person in a car and he's having a drink, then that's a bit different... However I'm not speaking directly to the impact of of someone sitting next to you. It's not about you. I'm talking about the impact on society. Quote:
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This is a perfect example of what I refer to as demonization. Do the benefits outwiegh the risks? Probably not at the levels most smokers get. However, the same can be said of most drinkers, and the cardiovascular effects of ETOH. Quote:
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However since you brought it up, what about the alcohol industry? What about the airlines- who dump enough toxins into the upper atmosphere each year to kill all of us several times over. What about industry, like the coal industy- who quite frankly contributes far more to the rising incidence of asthma in this country that tobbaco manufacturers. Are they going to get away "scott free"? Hopefully not, but what the hell does that red herring have to do with legislating the behaviors of {i}INDIVIDUALS[/i]? Quote:
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Public health? Yep. Making all those mafias and cartels rich enough to advance corruption into the government without any tax return for the pain certainly doesn't seem in the interest of public health to me. In other words, it not nearly as simplistic as you present it. Farmers can easily use other forms of pesticide and get siilar results. However regulating individuals and their personal choices is a recipie for disaster. Quote:
I don't particularly think however that it's accurate to portray smoking as suicide, or second hand smoke as homicide. Harmful yes, but it's a form of extremism that does little to promote rational discourse. Of course, that assumes you want rational discourse.
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I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... Last edited by Blackheart : 08-20-2002 at 01:54 PM. |
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08-20-2002, 01:41 PM | #52 | |
Elf Lord
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Location: Darkness
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It's a lot easier after all, to change my eating habits. or my place of employment, than it is to change where I live... Why are the tobbacco companies being sued and not the coal companies? Easy. Politics. Who's in favor, who's not. Rationality has nothing to do with it.
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I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... |
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08-20-2002, 01:44 PM | #53 | |
Bard of Mangled Songs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: West of Middle Earth...oh alright...Manila
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Poverty and overpopulation contribute a huge part in this. There's simply a lot more "urgent" problems for the average person in asia to get worried about than dying 10 to 30 yrs younger than he/she should. It's an explanation but, I admit, not an excuse.
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Power attracts the corruptible. Absolute power attracts the absolutely corruptible. -Missionaria Protectiva, Frank Herbert Accio, Ash Nazg! Elennuru s?*la lúmenn' omentielvo (The Death Star shines on the hour of our meeting) - Darth Arathorn Put aside the ranger... Start looking for Mumakil action figures... |
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08-20-2002, 01:47 PM | #54 | |
Elf Lord
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Location: Darkness
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Not to mention you get to breath the sulpher and soot... But it's much more satisfying to go after a "visible" problem instead of acting on something more difficult and less visable (and convienient) that might actually have some positive, achievable results... Last Edited by Sister Golden Hair
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I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... |
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08-20-2002, 01:52 PM | #55 | ||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Darkness
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Quote:
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I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... |
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08-20-2002, 02:23 PM | #56 | ||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
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Quote:
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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08-20-2002, 02:51 PM | #57 | ||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
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Bringing him out here was not enabling him though - it was saving his life. I'd do that in a heart beat no questions asked if he needed me to. Quote:
The bottom line is that it's not like people don't know the consequences to smoking, doing drugs or alcohol. People can't whine about it after they have cancer, liver disease or brain damage and say "If I only knew". My friend has said that many times.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 08-20-2002 at 04:04 PM. |
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08-20-2002, 04:36 PM | #58 | |
the Shrike
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA <3
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Yes, YOU have a choice of employment. Some people don't. In fact, a lot of people who work the bars and stuff - over here anyway, are people without qualifications. Sure, they don't HAVE to work in a bar; they could work somewhere else. However, unqualified people have less choice. And the job market is distinctly unfriendly to young unqualified people.
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08-20-2002, 05:06 PM | #59 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Valinor, right next to Telperion . . . what did you expect, Michigan?
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Gods, if poeple that smoke would please stay away from me with that cigarette . . .
It wouldn't bother me so much if it didn't make me feel so damned sick. I can't tolerate secondhand smoke- I get sick to my stomach, I cough, I can't breathe, and I get headaches, feel dizzy and see spots. In Athens, Greece, we drove through part of the city in a taxi. It smelled so strongly of cigarette smoke, I was struggling not to pass out for the whole ride. Those stupid spots I see have a habit of getting more frequent, and denser, and darker in color, until I lose my vision and have it replaced by a wave of black . . . and another . . . If you wish to have me stay conscious . . .don't smoke near me, thanx. 'nuff said, I think. If people want to kill themselves smoking, great. That's their problem.
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08-20-2002, 05:43 PM | #60 |
Queen of Nargothrond
Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Akron, Ohio - USA
Posts: 7,121
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Sounds like a migraine.
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