Muslims

[Nurvingiel]

Originally Posted by Rev. Justin Timberlake

http://michellemalkin.com/archives/004413.htm

I followed that link, and this one here gives you all 12 (from Malkin's blog):
http://michellemalkin.com/archives/004413.htm

Thanks RJT.

And I second Lief's "Er, what are you suggesting?"

[Rev. Justin Timberlake]

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

Are you suggesting that we set bombs off in Muslim marketplaces? If not, just what are you suggesting?

Ninja assasins working with proper intelligence, of course.

It's laughable how these people, living in a land of government-controlled media, lack the ability to understand that other countries do not operate in the same way.

European governments should not have to apologise--why reinforce such ignorance?

“ZOMG! It's them thar Danish government's fault! Burn down that thar embassey! That'll learn 'em!” *

Lack of freedom of speech goes a long way to show how some of these Middle-Eastern countries have landed up as they are.

I also find it incredibly ironic how some random protestor was holding up a placard that said “Freedom of expression go to hell!” or something similar.

*Please note, I don't think Muslim extremists are hillbillies. They'd never stereotypically talk like that.

[Rev. Justin Timberlake]

Freakin' Fantastic Four. I think they win this one.

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

I think the cartoons were printed innocently at first, though those who continued the printing afterward, after the protests had already erupted, should certainly be held responsible for their callousness. No, the extreme reaction was not warranted, and I definitely don't support what the Muslim protesters are doing. However, publishing something that will anger millions is also not warranted.

If you call the papers and magazines that printed cartoons after the original Danish cartoons only callous, than I don't think you fully understand their real reasons for reprinting it. However, I have said all I wanted to say on this situation.

[Lief Erikson]

Originally Posted by Rev. Justin Timberlake

Ninja assasins working with proper intelligence, of course.

I got that much, but what would this group be allowed to do, exactly, that our intelligence officers and Special Ops aren't already allowed to do?

Would they kill potential terrorists as well as actual terrorists? If so, how far would that go? Would that mean . . . any Muslim?

Originally Posted by Eärniel

If you call the papers and magazines that printed cartoons after the original Danish cartoons only callous, than I don't think you fully understand their real reasons for reprinting it.

I understand they feel the need to assert their rights to freedom of speech. That doesn't mean it isn't callous also.

[Falagar]

It wasn't only pictures of the Prohpet, it was pictures of the prophet running around in terroristish manner and with a bomb-shaped turban.

The problem with the cartoons is that of course they have a right to publish them...but they should have been able to foresee at least some of the reactions. The muslim countries don't have the same tradition with "free speech" that we have. It's easy to be tolerant when you're living in a rich country, enjoying all the best the world has to offer. It's easy to say that anyone shall be able to express whatever they want.

It's harder when you're an oppressed citizen of a religous regime. Or a "second-range" citizen of a rich country, clinging to your religion as the last connection you have to your ancestors culture. I suspect many muslims are pretty jealous of the west as well, and any excuse to be able to express your opposition to western culture is a good one. To underline my point: in the medival age, when the Muslim empires were on top and Europe was divided into petty feudal states, which region was the most (religious) tolerant? In addition, Islam doesn't have the same turn-the-other-cheek message Christianity gave us, and thus not the same timid relation to violence western culture has gained (through philosophers) through the last two centuries. Also, religion has become a personal matter in the west; something it definitely isn't in muslim countries.

This, of course, doesn't mean we should give into the pressure from muslim countries and censor our newspapers. The paper/magazine should excuse the cartoons because they're disrespectful and hurt a lot of people's feelings - but not excuse their publishing. There's no point in having free speech if we won't defend it.

[Lief Erikson]

I completely agree.

Originally Posted by Falagar

It wasn't only pictures of the Prohpet, it was pictures of the prophet running around in terroristish manner and with a bomb-shaped turban.

Yes, and many Muslims have actually said that this fact bothers them more than the "portraying an image" factor. Though the latter is certainly important to many, as well.

[Lotesse]

It "bothers" them? Aw, did it hurt their widdew feewings? So now they want to execute and exterminate and blow up and burn down whomever excercises THEIR FREE SPEECH, in their OWN Western country. Since when does the "Nation of Islam" get to call the shots world-wide? Oh yeah, that's right, since they began blowing themselves up in our Western cities and places, that's since when. And terrorising the world into doing things THEIR way, OR ELSE. The more I think about it, the sicker I get.

[Falagar]

I'm not quite sure that making pictures of the Prophet is illegal (there were made a few pictures of him in the medival age...though I think they hid his face). Making fun of him, however, clearly is.

[Falagar]

Originally Posted by Lotesse

It "bothers" them? Aw, did it hurt their widdew feewings? So now they want to execute and exterminate and blow up and burn down whomever excercises THEIR FREE SPEECH, in their OWN Western country. Since when does the "Nation of Islam" get to call the shots world-wide? Oh yeah, that's right, since they began blowing themselves up in our Western cities and places, that's since when. And terrorising the world into doing things THEIR way, OR ELSE. The more I think about it, the sicker I get.

No, it hurt their religion, according to them. They do not have the same culture of free speech, democracy and so on, I don't think they care much about them either. Which doesn't excuse them, however. We're not going to do it "their way" (I assume you mean censoring the media and taking sharia in use), nor are we going to let them commit terrorist-actions. But I don't think an up-front confrontation will help much, it would rather make the differences bigger. Personally, I believe a gradual change would be the best...though, as the situation lies before us now, it doesn't seem that this will happen.

[BeardofPants]

Here's what I posted on another site:
I support the Danish media's freedom of press and speech. But I agree with Devlin, this was nothing more than a 'neener neener' red flag. Media around the world postulate that they are showing solidarity by printing them, but I am disgusted. It is nothing more than a play-ground, puerile, infantile attempt at poking tongues at the foreign kid across the sandpit. I am disgusted by how the media circus have been behaving.

[Radagast The Brown]

I find all this very hypocritical. It seems like they don't mind publishing in their official newspapers many cartoons against Judaism, Israel, the US, Christianity, etc.. when a Dannish paper publishes an anti-muslim cartoon, they get upset and go burn embassies.
I really don't think any apology is needed. If at all, it should be from Arab newspapers, IMO.

[inked]

bbc reports:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/progra..._details.shtml


Notice in the first paragraph the desired procedure for people who disagree.

Also, in the second article notice the call of Christians in Iraq for a "homeland" in the country not dissimilar from the Palestinian requests to Jordan.

[HOBBIT]

Originally Posted by Radagast The Brown

I find all this very hypocritical. It seems like they don't mind publishing in their official newspapers many cartoons against Judaism, Israel, the US, Christianity, etc.. when a Dannish paper publishes an anti-muslim cartoon, they get upset and go burn embassies.
I really don't think any apology is needed. If at all, it should be from Arab newspapers, IMO.

Exactly Radagast, I was going to post something similar. They can dish it, but can't take it.

-----------
This whole thing seems so odd to me, because there are offensive cartoons here in the US all the time. And we don't go burning buildings or American flags over it. I've seen so many "offensive" portrayals of God and Jesus - just watch Family Guy and South Park, haha. And those are done by Americans themselves.

In my first post, I didn't mean that this wasn't big news - just that the US media sites did't seem to be giving it "top story" level like the European news sites are. I guess that was a silly thing to say - it is always on the front page, just not always the top one or two story.

[Falagar]

This whole thing seems so odd to me, because there are offensive cartoons here in the US all the time. And we don't go burning buildings or American flags over it. I've seen so many "offensive" portrayals of God and Jesus - just watch Family Guy and South Park, haha. And those are done by Americans themselves.

I think the economic state of things have a large impact on how tolerant people see it fit to be (my belief at least, see my first post ).

[Elvellon]

<Elvellon comes out of his Entish slumber>

Let me see. A small potatoes, non-muslin newspaper, in a small, non-muslin country, in a corner of an overwhelmingly non-muslin continent decides to print a cartoon of Mahomet with a bomb on a turban. How do the radicals react?
By pillaging and burning embassies, and likely threatening using bombs, no doubt.
Bravo. They validate the cartoon
Do they even understand the irony?

[Elvellon]

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

I understand they feel the need to assert their rights to freedom of speech. That doesn't mean it isn't callous also.

But remember, others may feel that the attempt to intimidate the Western countries press, and governments, warrants such a reaction. Multiculturalism is not a one way street, as many muslins often seem to think.

[Nurvingiel]

Originally Posted by Rev. Justin Timberlake

It's laughable how these people, living in a land of government-controlled media, lack the ability to understand that other countries do not operate in the same way.

Rather than being laughable, don't you think that explains why a lot of people blamed the Danish government? Because freedom of the press is a foreign concept to them?

I'm not saying people are stupid, though many have reacted to this with ignorance, but if you've never experienced freedom of the press I doubt it would be the first thing to come to mind when you hear of an offensive cartoon.

The only reason I know there isn't freedom of press in some other countries is because I have access to un-filtered internet and can read a variety of autonomous newspapers.

I suspect a lot of people who are angry have not actually seen the cartoons. I bet they were told that a Danish newspaper had published a very offensive cartoon about Mohammed, and were angry because of that news. They wouldn't be wrong to be angry. Having seen them, I'm a bit offended, and I'm not even Muslim. However, violence, banning Danish imports, and protesting are taking it too far. They could have drawn cartoons making fun of the guy that drew the offensive cartoons. That's a much more appropriate response. I have an idea, which I may post later.

Use humour instead of violence!

Thanks for the link Inked. Interesting. (And a bit depressing. )

[The Gaffer]

First off, I would appeal to the reasonable people on this board not to assume that the whole of Islam is up in arms.

It is extremists, as ever, who are delighted because it gives them great ammo to draw people to their cause.

I don't know, you think maybe it has something to do with Islam?

Of course, we are further playing into their hands by tarring the a billion people with the same brush. It's racism, folks, and it's in OUR heads.

The editor of a Jordanian newspaper said that greater harm is done to Islam by images of extremists beheading captives than by cartoons of the Prophet.

Of course, Saudi and other newspapers regularly publish highly offensive cartoons agains Jews and Israel. So there is hypocrisy a-plenty there.

I agree with Lief: it was stupid and inflammatory to republish those cartoons (they were originally published in September and no-one noticed.)

Of course they have a right to do it, it is still stupid. Similarly, it is criminal and stupid to set fire to embassies and to hold up placards calling for blasphemers to be beheaded.

Why does it always seem like certain Muslims are looking for ways to justify barbarity and destructivity?

Yet more hypocrisy. Same reason I guess that certain Christians seem to think it's justifiable to bomb and invade entire countries, killing thousands of innocents.

[Artanis]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

I won't say I find the printing of the cartoons of very good taste and wisdom. But it's like that quote of (I think) Voltaire: I disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend your right to say it.

Definately agree with this. Freedom of speech is still important, though it is often misused. But the printing of those cartoons were just plain stupid. I cannot with my best will see any good reason to do it.

I find it especially ironic that this little Norwegian Christian newspaper that printed those infamous drawings of the prophet is strongly voicing their opinion against blasphemy when the target is the Christian God.