TTT moments that irritate now, upon multiple viewings

[Black Breathalizer]

Originally posted by Wayfarer
I disliked the end of the movie extremely. Both movies, actually.

Tolkien always ended his books spectacularly.

Tolkien wrote ONE novel called Lord of the Rings. His "books" were simply ways to announce the major sections of the narrative. Tolkien never intended readers to have to deal with cliffhanger endings. He absolutely detested the idea of having his ONE novel broken down into three separate books.

Now Peter Jackson had the task of creating three separate movies about ONE story. It would have been unwise to leave audiences with cliffhanger endings with a year between movies...and frankly, to do so would have been following the lead of Gaynor Unwin, not JRR Tolkien.

[durin's bane]

But Jackson didn't end the movies in the best way. It's because of the ending of FotR that some viewers who hadn't read the books thought that that was the end; it wouldn't continue.

Alright, here's my nitpicks:

-The movies focus too much on Aragorn, especially in TTT. Frodo and Sam get little screentime in TTT because most of it goes to Aragorn.

-The lack of needed scenes as opposed to uneeded ones. For example, they couldv'e taken out Aragorn's death scene, the Warg battle, and Arwen and Elrond's chat, and put in crucial things like the coming to Isengard and Pippin's experience with the Palantir. I thought that Jackson added Boromir's death at the end of FotR instead of TTT to make room for more stuff in TTT, but he wasted that time on idiotic scenes. Very disappointing.

-The ending should've ended with Gandalf and Pippin huffing it to Gondor and Sam discovering Frodo had been captured alive by Orcs. Instead, we don't get Shelob and half of book 3 is left out, due to the hour of travelling to Helm's Deep.

-The coming of the Elves at Helm's Deep. Not only was this not in the books, but technically, it would be impossible for the Elves to travel all the way from Rivendell and Lothlorien to Helm's Deep in an hour, unless Galadriel had already forseen the battle in her mirror and decided to send troops just in case, but the chances of that are slim.

-Faramir. Totally unacceptable. He was a great character, and now...he's ruined. He's supposed to be noble and kind, not a grouch. The preview for the Extended Edition shows scenes of Boromir, Faramir, and Denethor, and I believe it may hint why Faramir acts the way he does, though.

-When you're watching Helm's Deep, it gets really annoying when they switch to Fangorn Forest. Fangorn bored me to death.

That's all, I think.

[Rían]

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer
He absolutely detested the idea of having his ONE novel broken down into three separate books.

Actually, Tolkien himself broke his one romance (his preferred term, IIRC) into SIX books, as WF pointed out (the first being from the beginning to the Flight to the Ford; the second being the council of Elrond to the breaking of the fellowship, etc.), and Tolkien himself refers to them as "books". Then the publisher put 2 books each into 3 separate physical volumes.

But we all know that

It's published in one volume now; I should get a 1-volume hardback set to supplement my fallling-to-pieces 3-volume paperback set and to honor Tolkien's preferred publishing method.

[Estel13]

I only have one major nitpick: Switching from Helm's Deep to Fangorn Forest. The Ents are great, but they talk way to slowly, when you're going from a battle...
I try not to think about the rest.

[Black Breathalizer]

Originally posted by Lizra
Aragorn to Legolas...."What do your *elf eyes* see?"

I love it when so-called Purists think they're trashing Jackson with this "elf eyes" thing without realizing they haven't read the books carefully enough and are unintentionally bashing the author himself.

[Rían]

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer
I love it when so-called Purists think they're trashing Jackson with this "elf eyes" thing without realizing they haven't read the books carefully enough and are unintentionally bashing the author himself.

I know that MY pick with that line (and I imagine Lizra's pick is the same) is that ... why in the world would Aragorn say "elf eyes"?!?!?! ARAGORN knows that elven eyes are better than human eyes; LEGOLAS knows that elven eyes are better than human eyes; ARAGORN knows that LEGOLAS is an elf - so why in the world would Aragorn have to say "elf eyes" instead of just "eyes"?

And it should be "elven" or "elvish", not "elf".

[gollum9630]

When Aragorn thinks the hobbits are dead and he kicks the orc helmet then yells and goes on his knees, i hate it more every time i watch the movie

[Earniel]

Now that you mention that scene gollum9630, I can live with the screaming and dropping to knees. But what I find rather unacceptable is that Aragorn finds 'tracks of a hobbit lying here' RIGHT NEXT TO THE PYRE! Exactly that spot where dozens of horses trampled past, many heavy armoured rohirrim walked and plenty of dead orcs were dragged over to be thrown on the pyre. NOT a chance that a feeble print of the body of a Hobbit could have survived. Whatever print would have been completely obliterated. Not a chance that even a Ranger like Aragorn can find prints that no longer are THERE.

Originally posted by RÃ*an

Leave it RÃ*an, you know BB's never happy unless he can call us Purists every two posts or something.

[editted from typing errors ]

[Sheeana]

Originally posted by RÃ*an

Ooh Rian... I don't believe I've ever seen you use that smiley.

[Lizra]

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer
I love it when so-called Purists think they're trashing Jackson with this "elf eyes" thing without realizing they haven't read the books carefully enough and are unintentionally bashing the author himself.

I'm not sure what you are getting at here? The phrasing "elf eyes" is too short, and a bit awkward and clumsy. (IMO) The point could have been made *more beautifully* ex.....

"The eyes of the elves are akin to those of the great eagles, Legolas, aid us with your vision." or "My mortal eyes have not the vision of the elves, Legolas, tell us what you see?"

The beauty of the language is a very important part of Tolkien's work, (IMO) It's one of the things that sets the tale apart from the rest. The lines that are truest to the book always sound the grandest ...didn't Jackson even say this? The point of elvish sight being keener than the other races is also another subtle way to illustrate the difference between elves and men, a part of the books that many people seem to be fascinated with. "What do your elf eyes see?" seems too short a phrase to illustrate the concept.

I find that line immediately leads me to think about labeling body parts....ranger ears, dwarf necks, hobbit bellies, wizard eyebrows, etc. The point of keen elvish sight is made by example in the book. (quite a few times) I think this important point could be given better treatment than simply "elf eyes" in the movie. At least Vigo delivers the line in a serious way so I don't immediately start sputtereing, but I still do this , whenever I hear it.

[Lanelf]

Originally posted by Eärniel
what I find rather unacceptable is that Aragorn finds 'tracks of a hobbit lying here' RIGHT NEXT TO THE PYRE! Exactly that spot where dozens of horses trampled past, many heavy armoured rohirrim walked and plenty of dead orcs were dragged over to be thrown on the pyre. NOT a change that a feeble print of the body of a Hobbit could have survived. Whatever print would have been completely obliterated. Not a change that even a Ranger like Aragorn can find prints that no longer are THERE.

What I don't like in that bit is how he scrapes aside grass to find the 'track'. Dude, you made that track up! If there was grass over it, then you'd know from how the grass was crushed, right? (please tell me if I'm wrong - I don't know much about tracking )
Lanelf.

[Rían]

Originally posted by gollum9630
When Aragorn thinks the hobbits are dead and he kicks the orc helmet then yells and goes on his knees, i hate it more every time i watch the movie

Have you heard in the commentary where he broke his toe in that scene, and that's why he's yelling so loud?

[gollum9630]

Originally posted by RÃ*an
Have you heard in the commentary where he broke his toe in that scene, and that's why he's yelling so loud?

i knew he broke his toe, but i didnt think thats why he yelled, i thought PJ made him do that. If i broke my toe i would be swearing and yelling, but i guess he kept in character, but it still annoys me

[Lizra]

If I broke my toe....crying, tears, drama! Guess I'm no Ranger!

I agree about finding the hobbit tracks in front of Fangorn being a bit of a stretch! Wouldn't it have been funny if Rangers were known for their keen sense of smell? (Ranger noses ) You know, they were good trackers because they had a bit of bloodhound in them... Picture Aragorn sniffing about looking for clues....No?...ok, I'm going!

[Sween]

Originally posted by Lizra
If I broke my toe....crying, tears, drama! Guess I'm no Ranger!

I agree about finding the hobbit tracks in front of Fangorn being a bit of a stretch! Wouldn't it have been funny if Rangers were known for their keen sense of smell? (Ranger noses ) You know, they were good trackers because they had a bit of bloodhound in them... Picture Aragorn sniffing about looking for clues....No?...ok, I'm going!

Oh dear me

[Black Breathalizer]

Originally posted by Lizra
I'm not sure what you are getting at here? The phrasing "elf eyes" is too short, and a bit awkward and clumsy. (IMO) The point could have been made *more beautifully* ...

I find that line immediately leads me to think about labeling body parts....ranger ears, dwarf necks, hobbit bellies, wizard eyebrows, etc. The point of keen elvish sight is made by example in the book. (quite a few times) I think this important point could be given better treatment than simply "elf eyes" in the movie. At least Vigo delivers the line in a serious way so I don't immediately start sputtereing, but I still do this , whenever I hear it.

What I'm getting at is that Tolkien himself used the phrase "elf eyes." You can bash PJ for having Aragorn be the one to say it, but the phrase itself is pure Tolkien.

Read the novels more carefully next time.

[Rían]

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer
What I'm getting at is that Tolkien himself used the phrase "elf eyes." You can bash PJ for having Aragorn be the one to say it, but the phrase itself is pure Tolkien.

Read the novels more carefully next time.

Reference, please?

[squinteyedsoutherner]

........but Legolas stood beside him shading his bright ELVEN EYES with his long slender hand, and he saw not a shadow , nor a blur, but the small figures of horsemen, many horsemen and the glint of morning on the tips of their spears was like the twinkle of minute stars beyond the edge of mortal sight. Far behind them dark smoke rose in thin curling threads.

There was a silence in the empty fields and Gimli could hear the air moving in the grass.

"Riders" cried Aragorn springing to his feet "many riders on swift steeds are coming towards us.

"yes" said Legolas "there are 105. Yellow is their hair and bright are their spears. Their leader is very tall.

Aragorn smiled. "keen are the eyes of elves", he said

Lord of the Rings


If only the screenplay was half as well written.

[Black Breathalizer]

The Scene: The classroom for Tolkien 101A. The teacher, the wise and all-knowing Black Breathalizer is standing over the desk of Little Squinty shaking his hooded head.

Teacher Blackie: I'm very sorry squinteyedsoutherner, but you are once again WRONG. The phrase we are looking for is ELF EYES.

Can anyone else in this class find it? Here are some hints: it is SPOKEN by a member of the Fellowship and it can be found in THE TWO TOWERS novel.

[Rían]

Well, this is intriguing! Can you narrow it down to either Book III or IV, or give a rough time frame in the plot?

And thanks for the quote, Squint, which shows that in the topic we were talking about, Tolkien wrote quite an elegant section. I always liked Aragorn's "keen are the eyes of the elves!" comment, along with his smile.