What's so good about LOTR, anyway? - Page 2

cee2lee2 · 09-30-2002, 10:06 PM

Exactly my thought, Rána Eressëa. Tolkien created a whole world that I can live in, even if only in my imagination and for brief periods. There is a macrocosmic scale to the struggle of good and evil but it is accomplished in a microcosmic way by "ordinary" people.

samwise of the shire · 10-01-2002, 05:28 PM

I just got done with my fourth reading of LOTR, and as I was closing the book a thought struck me. Because of the destruction of the One Ring the great elves cant live in Middle Earth any longer because their refuges have diminished and faded with the destruction of the One Ring. So it's a bittersweet beauty there.
The elves COULD have hidden the Ring by taking it over the sea and let Lothlorien and Rivendell stay alive with the beauty of the elves. But with the destruction of the Ring so came the end of the reign of elves in ME and because of that Middle Earth would no longer be as lovely as it was. You dont really understand the plight of the Elves until Galadriel and Elrond leave. So of all the cultures it's the elves that give Middle Earth most of it's historic beauty.
Cheers,
A thoughtful
Sam

Sicirus · 10-01-2002, 06:26 PM

Its a memerable world you can go to at any time. It is a world that is created with its own past and races. It has a geniuse set of languages and characters.

osszie · 10-01-2002, 06:54 PM

The tale itself is complete

no unanswered questions and, thanks to the appendix, we learn of most of the major characters until their death/departure. It's more than just a brief glimpse into their lives, it is the story of their lives.

(quick thought) one question did remain........but I think Goldberry answered that

plus the descriptive, dialogue, atmospheric (and accessable) writing...........just a great story, in the truest sense

then we delve into the history of middle earth.........but that is another thread surely

I believe tolkien succeeded, he created a mythology.......

**Nurvingiel** · 10-03-2002, 02:40 PM

There are many unanswered questions in Lord of the Rings, and at the same time, so much information is given to us. Enough information so that you can always think of another question you want answered.

The appendices tell you much of the language and history. Middle Earth is like a real world in this respect. If you go to this world, there's a huge amount of detail. From this detail, even more information can be inferred. Answering one question usually leads to another. Some that I've yet to answer are:

Who are Goldberry and Tom Bombadil?
What was it like for Treebeard when he was an Enting? What was Middle Earth like then?
When Men first came from the East, where exactly were they coming from, and why did they leave?
It is mentioned in the Silmarillion that there were five Istari, but two of them went into the East, and do not come into this tale. Who are they? This also implies that there are people living there.
What other adventures has Aragorn had? He's been the Sea of Rhun, what was that like?
What about Rhadagast the Brown and Beorn? What adventures have they had?

There's an endless list of questions that, in any other book, we wouldn't even think to ask.

Speculating about the answers to these questions is half the fun of reading Lord of the Rings.

Tolkein gives us so much detail that we want to live in this world. We know so much about Middle Earth (and practically nothing about the rest of Ea) that we want more.

This literary work isn't something you can read once and forget about. Once you've even glanced at it, you're hooked for life. You want to know more.

The desire for Lord of the Rings knowledge is what drives some people to learn to speak Elvish. This is why you can do a degree in Tolkein studies at Oxford. The thirst for knowledge is what prompts people to start an Entmoot solely about this topic, where they can discuss it any time, because there's always something to talk about.

That's what's so good about Lord of the Rings.

durin's bane · 10-03-2002, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by IronParrot
Discuss.

it's just an awesome book, 'nuff said

i dunno what makes it good, maybe the plot, maybe the characters uniqueness or maybe it's the hobbits and all their coolness...i don't know. it's just cool

**Nurvingiel** · 10-04-2002, 04:48 PM

I still like my theory, even though it definately could be more simple than that.

Renille · 10-04-2002, 11:59 PM

The Lord of the Rings is like an onion. It has layers...first, the outer adventure story, next a really great mental challenge,next a great big chunk of food for the thought, and at the core, much history.

Plus, like the intense smell of our onion, LOTR is rather breathtaking. But luckily, it's a GOOD breathtaking.

**Nurvingiel** · 10-05-2002, 05:48 PM

Everybody likes cake. Or how about parfait? Have you ever said to someone, let's go get some parfait, and they said, "Nah, I don't like no parfait." I don't think so.

Anyway... I agree, LOTR does have layers, countless layers.

entss89 · 10-05-2002, 09:02 PM

Quote:

whats so good about lotrs any way?

the action, adventure, and suspence! ok the suspense is this evil dude wants this evil ring and a couple of little dudes wants to keep the evil ring away from the evil dude. u follow me?

Treebeard's apprentice · 10-05-2002, 10:01 PM

I love it for many reasons, including the part about the army of orcs disappearing in a forest that wasn't there the day before.
HA!
Sorry, I laugh whenever I think about that.

durin's bane · 10-05-2002, 10:05 PM

plus, the hero isn't really a hero at the beginning... *no offense to the frodo fans: he's just a frighted little hobbit who fears every step he takes as long as he has the ring. but as he goes along he releases skills and feelings he never thought he had. that goes for sam, pippin, merry, and bilbo, too.

Erawyn · 10-06-2002, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Because of the destruction of the One Ring the great elves cant live in Middle Earth any longer because their refuges have diminished and faded with the destruction of the One Ring

Why is that exactly??

I've always wondered about the east where men came from, I wish that there was more to the maps in the book, and stuff written about what was in the east!
Also I have a couple questions about Elves. What are the differences between Sindarin and Quenya? is it just different languages? And i read somewhere something about sea elves, anyone know anything about them?

olsonm · 10-06-2002, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Erawyn
Also I have a couple questions about Elves. What are the differences between Sindarin and Quenya? is it just different languages? And i read somewhere something about sea elves, anyone know anything about them?

Before the Sindar and the rest of the elves were seperated by the Great Journey they spoke essentially the same language. But because they were seperated for so long their languages became deferentiated. So Sindarin and Quenya are related languages.

I believe 'sea elves' was a way of refering to those Teleri elves who settled on the coasts at the Falas and eventually Alqualonde.

Quote:

Why is that exactly??

The Three elven rings preserved their lands. But, because Sauron was able to bind the Three to the One, when the One was destroyed the Three waned and the many of the elves had no more desire to stay in ME (mostly the remaining Eldar and their descendants).

Erawyn · 10-06-2002, 11:43 AM

Thanks Olsonm!

samwise of the shire · 10-09-2002, 12:12 AM

I guess Nurvingiel that we have to make up our own adventures for the questions that have no answers and for the people who have no names...which is another wonderful think about Tolkien.
He leaves room for imagination to grow and florish like a flower in a carefully tended garden. He gives us details about the culture but not about the people which gives us the ability to see them with our own eyes and it gives those of us who are growing up and dont want their imagination to leave us (like me) a few more years of being immature and beliveing in faeries and hobbits and orcs and magic.
Cheers,
Sam

viggosbeard · 10-09-2002, 10:04 AM

surely there is not one thing alone that makes lotr the greatestest book ever - apart from the obviously important geneology, culture, mythology etc, it has got to be a personal thing ?

I was originally read " the mines of moria " by an uncle when i was a mere 7 year old sprog and i witnessed it so vividly in my little uncluttered mind, it was awesome.He also gave me a crazy poster of Gollum - hes all green and slimy,sitting on a rock in a cavern with goblins searching in caverns over his head - memories !
I read the rings when i was 12 and was welcomred into a magical world that none of my friends new about or where bothered about, what fools!
I have always thought it immensely funny that people who havnt read the rings dont even know what they are missing.
I can still pick up the rings now, any book , any chapter and am immediately in another world.
I love the look in newbies eyes as they start to read it and become engulfed / obsessed / questioning /absorbed.
oh and i forgot to mention.... i am aragorn ( hey, if i say im aragorn, then that is who i am ! you cant come into my head, theres only room for me and a few others in here, so stay out ! )

**Nurvingiel** · 10-09-2002, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by samwise of the shire
I guess Nurvingiel that we have to make up our own adventures for the questions that have no answers and for the people who have no names...which is another wonderful think about Tolkien.
He leaves room for imagination to grow and florish like a flower in a carefully tended garden. He gives us details about the culture but not about the people which gives us the ability to see them with our own eyes and it gives those of us who are growing up and dont want their imagination to leave us (like me) a few more years of being immature and beliveing in faeries and hobbits and orcs and magic.
Cheers,
Sam

Right on Sam, that exactly what I meant! This leaves us room to imagine that we are in Middle Earth!

Human#3.141592653 · 10-09-2002, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Everybody likes cake. Or how about parfait? Have you ever said to someone, let's go get some parfait, and they said, "Nah, I don't like no parfait." I don't think so.

I don't like parfiat. An' I don' like no stinkin' talkin' donkeys neither!

Why do we like tolkien? Becasue he was so very thorough, and died before he was finished.

Renille · 10-09-2002, 10:50 PM

Pi has layers too, right?

Seriously. I just realized from reading Human's post...there's another reason Tolkien's works are magnificent.

Because he died before the completion, he left alot to our imaginations! Half of the story is ours to discover if only we try...and we always know there are more tales out there. All us readers have to do is find them. THAT, to me, is what makes LOTR the greatest.

10-01-2002, 05:28 PM	#22
samwise of the shire Radically Tolkienited Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: If home is where the heart is, and my heart is in heaven...that should answer your question. <+>< Posts: 967	I just got done with my fourth reading of LOTR, and as I was closing the book a thought struck me. Because of the destruction of the One Ring the great elves cant live in Middle Earth any longer because their refuges have diminished and faded with the destruction of the One Ring. So it's a bittersweet beauty there. The elves COULD have hidden the Ring by taking it over the sea and let Lothlorien and Rivendell stay alive with the beauty of the elves. But with the destruction of the Ring so came the end of the reign of elves in ME and because of that Middle Earth would no longer be as lovely as it was. You dont really understand the plight of the Elves until Galadriel and Elrond leave. So of all the cultures it's the elves that give Middle Earth most of it's historic beauty. Cheers, A thoughtful Sam __________________ Jesus is my all in all <><+<><+<><+<><+<><+<><+ People who are so concerned with escapism do have a name...we call them jailers. ~J.R.R Tolkien Radically Saved, Totally Tolkienited GOD... BLESS... AMERICA...

10-01-2002, 06:26 PM	#23
Sicirus Elf Lord Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Down the road on your left...No your other left. Posts: 1,825	Its a memerable world you can go to at any time. It is a world that is created with its own past and races. It has a geniuse set of languages and characters. __________________ "I know less then half of you half as well as I should like. And I like less then half of you half as well as you deserve." Bilbo Baggins

10-03-2002, 02:40 PM	#25
Nurvingiel Co-President of Entmoot Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 8,397	Unanswered Questions There are many unanswered questions in Lord of the Rings, and at the same time, so much information is given to us. Enough information so that you can always think of another question you want answered. The appendices tell you much of the language and history. Middle Earth is like a real world in this respect. If you go to this world, there's a huge amount of detail. From this detail, even more information can be inferred. Answering one question usually leads to another. Some that I've yet to answer are: Who are Goldberry and Tom Bombadil? What was it like for Treebeard when he was an Enting? What was Middle Earth like then? When Men first came from the East, where exactly were they coming from, and why did they leave? It is mentioned in the Silmarillion that there were five Istari, but two of them went into the East, and do not come into this tale. Who are they? This also implies that there are people living there. What other adventures has Aragorn had? He's been the Sea of Rhun, what was that like? What about Rhadagast the Brown and Beorn? What adventures have they had? There's an endless list of questions that, in any other book, we wouldn't even think to ask. Speculating about the answers to these questions is half the fun of reading Lord of the Rings. Tolkein gives us so much detail that we want to live in this world. We know so much about Middle Earth (and practically nothing about the rest of Ea) that we want more. This literary work isn't something you can read once and forget about. Once you've even glanced at it, you're hooked for life. You want to know more. The desire for Lord of the Rings knowledge is what drives some people to learn to speak Elvish. This is why you can do a degree in Tolkein studies at Oxford. The thirst for knowledge is what prompts people to start an Entmoot solely about this topic, where they can discuss it any time, because there's always something to talk about. That's what's so good about Lord of the Rings.

10-04-2002, 04:48 PM	#27
Nurvingiel Co-President of Entmoot Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 8,397	Thirst for knowledge anyone? I still like my theory, even though it definately could be more simple than that.

10-04-2002, 11:59 PM	#28
Renille Elven Lady of Speed-posting Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the cheese state Posts: 988	The Lord of the Rings is like an onion. It has layers...first, the outer adventure story, next a really great mental challenge,next a great big chunk of food for the thought, and at the core, much history. Plus, like the intense smell of our onion, LOTR is rather breathtaking. But luckily, it's a GOOD breathtaking. __________________ Oh the thinks you can think! Think and wonder and dream...far and wide as you dare! When your thinks have run dry, in the blink of an eye, there's another world there... (from Seussical the Musical. Listen to it...watch it...really.)

09-30-2002, 10:06 PM	#21
cee2lee2 Elf Lord Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: 2nd star to the left..... Posts: 566	Exactly my thought, Rána Eressëa. Tolkien created a whole world that I can live in, even if only in my imagination and for brief periods. There is a macrocosmic scale to the struggle of good and evil but it is accomplished in a microcosmic way by "ordinary" people.

10-01-2002, 06:54 PM	#24
osszie Elven Warrior Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 409	The tale itself is complete no unanswered questions and, thanks to the appendix, we learn of most of the major characters until their death/departure. It's more than just a brief glimpse into their lives, it is the story of their lives. (quick thought) one question did remain........but I think Goldberry answered that plus the descriptive, dialogue, atmospheric (and accessable) writing...........just a great story, in the truest sense then we delve into the history of middle earth.........but that is another thread surely I believe tolkien succeeded, he created a mythology.......

10-05-2002, 05:48 PM	#29
Nurvingiel Co-President of Entmoot Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 8,397	What about cake? Everybody likes cake. Or how about parfait? Have you ever said to someone, let's go get some parfait, and they said, "Nah, I don't like no parfait." I don't think so. Anyway... I agree, LOTR does have layers, countless layers.

10-05-2002, 10:01 PM	#31
Treebeard's apprentice Elven Warrior Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Wherever I may roam Posts: 207	I love it for many reasons, including the part about the army of orcs disappearing in a forest that wasn't there the day before. HA! Sorry, I laugh whenever I think about that.

10-05-2002, 10:05 PM	#32
durin's bane Lady of Westernesse Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Canada (Help! Our parliament building is melting!) Posts: 761	plus, the hero isn't really a hero at the beginning... *no offense to the frodo fans: he's just a frighted little hobbit who fears every step he takes as long as he has the ring. but as he goes along he releases skills and feelings he never thought he had. that goes for sam, pippin, merry, and bilbo, too. __________________ Yada, yada, yada

10-06-2002, 11:43 AM	#35
Erawyn Elven Warrior Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: america junior Posts: 320	Thanks Olsonm! __________________ peace never hurt anyone "Be not so bigoted to any custom as to worship it at the expense of Truth." Johann Georg von Zimmermann

10-09-2002, 12:12 AM	#36
samwise of the shire Radically Tolkienited Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: If home is where the heart is, and my heart is in heaven...that should answer your question. <+>< Posts: 967	I guess Nurvingiel that we have to make up our own adventures for the questions that have no answers and for the people who have no names...which is another wonderful think about Tolkien. He leaves room for imagination to grow and florish like a flower in a carefully tended garden. He gives us details about the culture but not about the people which gives us the ability to see them with our own eyes and it gives those of us who are growing up and dont want their imagination to leave us (like me) a few more years of being immature and beliveing in faeries and hobbits and orcs and magic. Cheers, Sam __________________ Jesus is my all in all <><+<><+<><+<><+<><+<><+ People who are so concerned with escapism do have a name...we call them jailers. ~J.R.R Tolkien Radically Saved, Totally Tolkienited GOD... BLESS... AMERICA...

10-09-2002, 10:04 AM	#37
viggosbeard Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: the banks of the Royal Blue Mersey Posts: 247	surely there is not one thing alone that makes lotr the greatestest book ever - apart from the obviously important geneology, culture, mythology etc, it has got to be a personal thing ? I was originally read " the mines of moria " by an uncle when i was a mere 7 year old sprog and i witnessed it so vividly in my little uncluttered mind, it was awesome.He also gave me a crazy poster of Gollum - hes all green and slimy,sitting on a rock in a cavern with goblins searching in caverns over his head - memories ! I read the rings when i was 12 and was welcomred into a magical world that none of my friends new about or where bothered about, what fools! I have always thought it immensely funny that people who havnt read the rings dont even know what they are missing. I can still pick up the rings now, any book , any chapter and am immediately in another world. I love the look in newbies eyes as they start to read it and become engulfed / obsessed / questioning /absorbed. oh and i forgot to mention.... i am aragorn ( hey, if i say im aragorn, then that is who i am ! you cant come into my head, theres only room for me and a few others in here, so stay out ! ) __________________ You cant resist her Shes in your bones Shes in your marrow And your ride home You cant avoid her Shes in the air In between molecules Of Oxygen and Carbon Dioxide Only in dreams

10-09-2002, 10:50 PM	#40
Renille Elven Lady of Speed-posting Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the cheese state Posts: 988	Pi has layers too, right? Seriously. I just realized from reading Human's post...there's another reason Tolkien's works are magnificent. Because he died before the completion, he left alot to our imaginations! Half of the story is ours to discover if only we try...and we always know there are more tales out there. All us readers have to do is find them. THAT, to me, is what makes LOTR the greatest. __________________ Oh the thinks you can think! Think and wonder and dream...far and wide as you dare! When your thinks have run dry, in the blink of an eye, there's another world there... (from Seussical the Musical. Listen to it...watch it...really.)

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