Smoking

[jerseydevil]

BH - I don't support huge legislation on smoking. I am glad that restaurants, offices, stores, airplanes, etc no longer allow smoking or at least have smoking sections. It's impossible to get away from it. If we went back to the 70's before all the laws regulating where smoking is prohibited and allowed - you wouldn't be able to make your case that more people are affected by "second hand" drinking. I don't have the facts on how many people die at the hand of someone drinking versus smoking currently - so I can't say. All I know is that someone drinking next to me - as long as they do it in moderation - does not have any ill affects on me. But someone that lights one cigarette next to me - makes me cough and makes me put my hand over my face so I don't breath it in because it hurts my throat.

For a lot of non-smokers, such as myself, it goes beyond not liking smoking. I can't breath. When I come out of the mall and a bunch of smokers are standing outside the doorway and I cough - that's a legitimate cough - not some message to them. When I'm outside talking to a friend that smokes - I have to make sure I stand with my back to the wind so it doesn't blow in my face.

The act of smoking is stupid. My comment that the LotR characters are stupid was a joke because they're fictional. If someone wants to smoke that's fine - it's their decision. Yes - people that eat, drink, or do anything else to excess is no better than smoking. But sitting next to someone who eats too much - is not going to have the same affect as sitting next to someone that is smoking.

I'm on the fence when it comes to the legalization of pot though. Although this isn't part of the thread - you brought it up by mentioning "cannibis". I think the punishments for smoking pot should be relaxed - it's filling up our jails with non-violent "criminals". As long as they're not smoking it in front of me - or getting in their cars afterward (same with drinking) I can care less.

I have a friend who is a heroin addict, general drug addict, alcoholic and smoker - he tells me that if he knew the dangers before he started he would never have started smoking (or doing any of the other stuff). I point out to him - that he knew the dangers. He even saw a number of friends die from heroin use before he even tried it. His father was chief of staff of a hospital in Indiana. Seeing friends die around him didn't even have an effect on him not shooting up. My friend told me that the first time he tried smoking or pot was in 5th grade - then didn't do anything until 7th grade and then finally got heavily involved with drugs, alcohol and smoking in 10th. When he was about 19 he got involved with heroin. I've always been there for him - through all his rehab, through all his attempts to get clean, through his jail time. He's a very smart person otherwise, great with computers, but do I think he's stupid for ruining his life and destroying his mind? Yes I do. Yes what he has done is stupid. The drinking, drugs and smoking are all stupid. He could have had anything he wanted in life. There are many reasons why he got involved with all this stuff - most of it dealing with his family life and his father - but now he has to move on. At least now he's finally accepted that San Francisco and Eugene Oregon - are NOT the best places for him.

By the way - it's funny how he tries to justify not only his smoking - but even his drug use. Many times he'll compare his drug use to me drinking iced tea and point out that caffeine is a drug. His argument is that anyone who drinks soda or coffee is a drug user.

[Ben]

I also am fully cognizant of the fact that it's an extreme risk to my health.

You could promote education instead of legislation.

Well, you just said you knew the risks. More education is not going to help. Elementary and middle schools are already saturated with information about the health risks, but obviously it's not terribly effective.

JD is right - the person next to me smoking one cigarette will have more effect on my health than the person drinking one drink. I have asthma, so it's even more detrimental to my health and breathing.

Question: Why do you need to be able to smoke in a restaurant? Even with designated non-smoking areas, the smoke can still waft over to them from the bars or smoking areas. It's not like a magic wall separates the sections. People should just smoke in their own homes where it just harms themselves.

Also, I am not aware of any health benefits for smoking - the effects are purely negative. I did a quick search and found a study about alcohol use : http://www.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/arh24-1/05-11.pdf

In the past two decades, however, a growing number of epidemiologic studies have documented an association between alcohol consumption and lower risk for coronary heart disease.

Obviously, there are negative consequences from heavy usage or consumption of anything, but smoking is among the worst offenders because it has no positive effects, and the very act of smoking harms anyone nearby directly. If I were sleepy, I would also be at an increased risk for having a driving accident. There could be a million causes for that. And you don't deny that cigarette smoking harms people, so why insist it should be unlegislated? Just because other substances can harm people doesn't mean we should let Big Tobacco go scot-free. If just one bank robber from a large group is caught, we shouldn't hesitate to prosecute him even though he wasn't the only one.

We regulate pesticides - btw, aren't there some pesticides in cigarettes? - in the name of public health. Would you prefer that farmers go back to being able to use whatever they want, including DDT? People can just avoid farms, right, and since DDT is so effective, why should we hinder business or freedom in the name of health?

After all, we can't let people take responsibility for themsleves, that would be a bit to much like letting them do what they want to do.

When someone commits suicide, that's fine by me. When someone commits homicide, that's different.

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

I think if someone smokes, that's their decision, and I don't particuarly care if they want to go ahead and ruin their lungs. Really, it's their choice.

I tried smoking once. Bloody awful. Don't think I'll be doing that again...

[GandalfTheWhite]

Well i agree that smoking ciggarettes is stupid cuz u dont get any thing out of it but im in no way shape or form against marijuna.

[Arathorn]

Well, I really hate it when people smoke beside me without the courtesy to ask if it's alright. I'd most likely say no, of course. It stinks if it's 2nd hand.

That's why I make sure we're all smoking or go out with a smoking friend who has free cigarettes to give me when I smoke.
*Grins as people get confused with this post*

*Decides to telepathically say that he smokes from time to time after a few good drinks with smoking friends because life is short anyway but respects non-smokers since he's one of them when he's sober.*

[Rána Eressëa]

Originally posted by Eruviel Greenleaf
I think if someone smokes, that's their decision, and I don't particuarly care if they want to go ahead and ruin their lungs. Really, it's their choice.

Praise it, sista! We like to keep it nice, short, and sweet.

Personally, you shouldn't choose for other people what they should do. If they get lung cancer - their fault. If you don't - longer life to ya.

See, I'm just too neutral for my own good.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Rána Eressëa


Praise it, sista! We like to keep it nice, short, and sweet.

Personally, you shouldn't choose for other people what they should do. If they get lung cancer - their fault. If you don't - longer life to ya.

See, I'm just too neutral for my own good.

Well when I breath in their smoke and can't get away from it - then it does affect me. That's why I felt when it came to restaurants - if you required them to have the strong ventilation system in the smoking section - some restaurants would install and other won't. The smokers would still have some restaurants to smoke and the free market would determine how many.

[Lizra]

I always b**** when I smell smoke in a restaurant. Can't help it. But, my husband has smoked for thirty years (not in the house of course!) and when he tries to quit it is AWFUL!! Everyone in the family gets to the point where we wish he would smoke one again. He's a bundle of nerves! I'm glad I was able to quit many years ago when I was pregnant. His stress level gets off the chart if he can't use nicotine, I say "do whatever you want dear"! I mean it too!

Once he went three months, He said it was worse at the end of three months than it was when he started! I couldn't believe it, I thought it would get better, but apparently not.

[Rána Eressëa]

Originally posted by jerseydevil


Well when I breath in their smoke and can't get away from it - then it does affect me. That's why I felt when it came to restaurants - if you required them to have the strong ventilation system in the smoking section - some restaurants would install and other won't. The smokers would still have some restaurants to smoke and the free market would determine how many.

Then just stay away from them. See, JD, control is E-V-I-L. But you seem to oddly love it.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Rána Eressëa


Then just stay away from them. See, JD, control is E-V-I-L. But you seem to oddly love it.

Where do I love control? I just don't want to be around smoking - unless I choose to be. When I go to a restaurant - get seated and then someone lights up and drifts over to me and I can't breath - it affects me.

I didn't even say that we should eliminate smoking. As matter of fact - I even said I was against a lot of the regulations that have been imposed on smokers. So I don't get where you're saying that I love controlling people. Requiring restaurants to put in ventalation systems that will clear the air better if they allow smoking is different thas outlawing smoking in all restaurants.

[Rána Eressëa]

The control thing was in general. Every thread I go you seem to want to "control" the peoples of the world in some little way. Mostly through law.

But let's not run off into that. It is a smoking thread, after all.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Rána Eressëa
The control thing was in general. Every thread I go you seem to want to "control" the peoples of the world in some little way. Mostly through law.

Well if that's how you feel - I'd like to see facts. Most of the time I'm saying that what people do is their business - as long as it doen't hurt others. I'm not outlawing cigarette smoking. But if we didn't have some of the current regulations - we'd still be flying on planes that had smoking through out the cabin, At least the US has no smoking on domestic flights.

Would you just let everyone smoke where ever - since you seem to be against controlling what people do what so ever?

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

I think in enclosed spaces like airplanes, it's best not to allow smoking. But for the most part, I would agree with Rana. What's all this about control, eh?

[Rána Eressëa]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
Well if that's how you feel - I'd like to see facts.

Would you just let everyone smoke where ever - since you seem to be against controlling what people do what so ever?

Oh, admit it, JD.

They can smoke where they want. I'll just stay away from them. If it's a short flight, I think they can handle the time not being able to smoke, though. It's not like it'd kill them.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Boy this thread is getting long. I had to go have a smoke in the middle of it.

Seriously though, I started smoking when I was nine and I am now forty six. I smoke a pack a day, and sometimes more depending on the circumstances. When I was nine, and it began with three little girls that were friends steeling cigarettes from their parents and going behind the house to light up and taking care not to get caught. It was an exciting adventure then. Later it became an addictive habbit and an expensive one. How effective are the warnings on the side of a cigarette pack? Useless. Kids don't read them, and adult smokers have been at it so long by then that they don't care. Besides, when you reach the age of reasoning, do you really need the Surgoen General to tell you that breathing smoke into your lungs is unhealthy. Smoker or non-smoker, the tobacco industry is a money maker for this country and is an economical asset. Sueing the tobacco companies is not the answer for getting people to quit, or curing a smokers cancer. These lawsuits are silly and are about money grubbing. Smokers know the health risks, and if they didn't when they started, they did after they grew up. So I believe no one wins in sueing some of the largest contributers to our American economy.

Now, I believe that as a smoker it is important to be considerate of those that do not smoke. I am not for banning smoking in public places like bars, and such. I think having a sophisticated ventilation system is a great idea, or a more economical solution, put smokeless ashtrays in the smoking section on every table. There is no reason why smokers and non-smokers can not co-exist together.

[Lizra]

Yes! Some restaurants are better than others. If smoke gets in my nose I (and my daughter!) complain. I hate the ones where you have to walk through the smoking to get to the non-smoking. My husband can certainly go a meal without smoking. Restaurants
can turn tables faster if they don't have people sitting there smoking for 20 minutes after their meal is done. I like the smokeless places. Bars are a bit trickier! I think the smokless ashtrays are a good idea. Maybe some of that tobacco $ could go for the cost. I don't want to have to pay higher prices so smoke fiends can fag off! Smoke in my nose gags me, ruins my apetite, and I hate listening to my daughter rag about how she hates it. If I'm going to pay $30 for a meal, I should be able to breath!

[Rána Eressëa]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Now, I believe that as a smoker it is important to be considerate of those that do not smoke. I am not for banning smoking in public places like bars, and such. I think having a sophisticated ventilation system is a great idea, or a more economical solution, put smokeless ashtrays in the smoking section on every table. There is no reason why smokers and non-smokers can not co-exist together.

I'm with ya there. If it doesn't bother me, I'll stick around. But if there's a lot of smoke to the point where I can't breathe, I'll just find another place. Lawsuits and complaints don't amount to anything - just move.

[BeardofPants]

Freedom of choice is one thing, however, there are some pretty scary stats out there for lung cancer developed from passive smoking --- especially for those poor SOBs working in the restaurants and bars, where they have no control in terms of moving away from the smoking areas. What the hell do you want to smoke a fag at the dinner table for any way? I mean, I don't take a dump at the table, and I would hope that an equally disgusting activity could be kept away from food. Bars and nightclubs on the other hand are a different story. I'm not sure what you can do about them: obviously the passive smokers are generally CHOOSING to be there... it's the employees I feel sorry for. Other than that, don't frickin' stand downwind from the smoking section.

[Ben]

I think if someone smokes, that's their decision, and I don't particuarly care if they want to go ahead and ruin their lungs. Really, it's their choice.

Well, what about my choice? If this person plops down next to me in a restaurant and lights up, the smoke is almost as harmful to me. If only they could find a way to poison themselves without damaging the lungs of everyone near them, that would be best.

Smoker or non-smoker, the tobacco industry is a money maker for this country and is an economical asset. Sueing the tobacco companies is not the answer for getting people to quit, or curing a smokers cancer. These lawsuits are silly and are about money grubbing. Smokers know the health risks, and if they didn't when they started, they did after they grew up. So I believe no one wins in sueing some of the largest contributers to our American economy.

The slave system was the backbone of antebellum Southern society. One of their arguments was that abolition would destroy their economy - and they were right. However, I don't think very many people in this day and age would now support the pro-slavery view. The South has managed to rebound. Big Tobacco is certainly not propping up the U.S. economy the way slavery was, so I'm sure we can survive any temporary unemployment surges, etc. that would result from its demise. In any event, I would feel better if our country's wealth was not based on industries whose sole purpose is killing consumers.

If the lawsuits are started by money-grubbers, then what about the tobacco industry? They've known for years that their product was toxic and had no redeeming qualities, and yet they continue to sell it. It seems to me that they value profits more than health. Since they only care about the money, then the only way to hurt them is in the pocketbook. Certainly, a war is out of the question, so the evil of smoking must be rooted out by legal means.

When I was nine, and it began with three little girls that were friends steeling cigarettes from their parents and going behind the house to light up and taking care not to get caught. It was an exciting adventure then. Later it became an addictive habbit and an expensive one. How effective are the warnings on the side of a cigarette pack? Useless. Kids don't read them, and adult smokers have been at it so long by then that they don't care.

Do you regret your decision now? If warnings are useless, then what do you propose to stop underage smoking? Do you even want to stop underage smoking? Imo, creating laws that would encourage adults to quit would indirectly slow underage smoking: the easiest way for minors to obtain cigarettes is certainly from parents, so if their parents don't smoke, other sources must be found.

Requiring restaurants to put in ventalation systems that will clear the air better if they allow smoking is different thas outlawing smoking in all restaurants.

I'm not convinced that a ventilation system would do any good if the smoker were very close to me. I doubt the system would be perfect, and it could encourage restaurants to stop segregating smokers if they believed the ventilation system would solve the problem. This would be a bad thing.

My hope is that increased societal pressure will eventually lead to the end of smoking. In the meantime, though, non-smokers should have the freedom to frequent any establishment without fear of respiratory damage.

[Starr Polish]

Actually, second hand smoke is more dangerous than first hand smoke, because of the lack of filters. Children of smokers are more prone to diseases like bronchitis and pneumonia.

I personally think they should make the smoking and non-smoking areas in restaurants more seperated. Asthmatics and others with breathing problems enjoy going out for dinner as well. Some people are allergic to smoke (I am) and can't handle much at all. I even cough at campfires.

It may be the smokers choice to light up, but if it's done around me, I usually don't have much say about it, and I don't exactly enjoy having to leave a restaurant because someone lit up.