Invisibility

[Earniel]

Maybe he left it in his safe in the Barad-dur

[Tar-Elendil]

lol..

[Christiana]

Actually,he did.

[Tar-Elendil]

ive heard different versions

[azalea]

In Letters Tolkein basically says that his spirit does carry it with him.
My best guess on Tom at this point is that he is Aule (although I'm open to discussion about that), and that's why it didn't make him invisible.
I think the point that since Sauron was the maker of the ring he was not affected in that way is valid, as well as the fact that he is not really "alive" or whatever. We don't really know how it would affect Gandalf/ other Maia because they never tried it on, so to speak. Maybe it did only make those of this earth invisible. Then again, maybe Gandalf would have been invisible, maybe Sauron wasn't because he, being the maker, had an "option," or maybe he couldn't become invisible by it because he kind of WAS the ring in a sense -- just some random musings.

[Tar-Elendil]

i dont see any similarities between tom and aule

[Cirdan]

I think Olorin, as one of the oldest istari and a Maiar, might be a good candidate for Tom. He dwelt in Lorien, and learned pity and patience from Nienna. These qualities fit his character; He had a calming affect and an affinity for trees..

[Mirahzi]

Well, yes those qualities do fit his character, but I sincerely doubt that Olorin could be Tom's identity.. considering the fact that Olorin is indeed Gandalf/Mithrandir.

[Cirdan]

Originally posted by Mirahzi
Well, yes those qualities do fit his character, but I sincerely doubt that Olorin could be Tom's identity.. considering the fact that Olorin is indeed Gandalf/Mithrandir.

You are right. What was I thinking . I definitely need to go get some sleep.

I was trying to find an early entry that fit his personality in the Sil.

The search continues... tomorrow.

[Earniel]

Originally posted by azalea
.....or maybe he couldn't become invisible by it because he kind of WAS the ring in a sense -- just some random musings.

Hey, you could be right here! The ring was part of him and visa versa. That would be a plausible explanation for Sauron not to disappear while wearing the ring.

[Tar-Elendil]

possibly sauron was always in "the wraith world" though he was visible. wild guess

[Eldanuumea]

Originally posted by Tar-Elendil
possibly sauron was always in "the wraith world" though he was visible. wild guess

That's actually not a bad idea. Sauron may very well have always had one foot in the wraithworld door, so to speak, since he was Maia. But wouldn't that mean that Gandalf and the other Istari would be half-in the other world as well?

By the way, someone please tell me how to get an avatar around here!!

[Tar-Elendil]

the vala (before they took on forms) were just mere spirits. they musta been in the "wraith world"?

[azalea]

I read a really good essay on the web proposing the "Tom is Aule" theory. But as I said, I'm not 100% convinced.

I think Sauron would be more in the wraith world than Gandalf because his phisical body had been destroyed before. Gandalf the White was more "other worldly" in some ways than he was as the Grey, wasn't he? maybe that does have some bearing on it.

[Tar-Elendil]

saying tom is aule is even more ludicrous than saying tom is tulkas
i dont see any similarities in them. can you please tell any of them

[Mirahzi]

Originally posted by azalea
I read a really good essay on the web proposing the "Tom is Aule" theory. But as I said, I'm not 100% convinced.

I think Sauron would be more in the wraith world than Gandalf because his phisical body had been destroyed before. Gandalf the White was more "other worldly" in some ways than he was as the Grey, wasn't he? maybe that does have some bearing on it.

Other worldly? I thought he was just Gandalf reincarnated by the powers of Valinor.. Similar to Glorfindel being sent back, Gandalf was also sent back to take care of 'unfinished business'

[Tar-Elendil]

gandalf never died becuz he was a maiar, his body perished(just like what happened with Sauron).I recall him saying something like "he walked long in dark thought" or something.
he took on once again the form of "gandalf"

[Cirdan]

Did his boby perish? He was "in long darkness" and "was sent back" naked. It is vaguely implied he died, but never really stated that way. Him time in Lothlorien was described as timeless. It seems that he was totally drained by the battle, but was conscience during and after. He could have just as well ascended in power by defeating another maiar.

[Wayfarer]

The other aspect of it is, that turning invisible was just a side effect of entering the wraith world. You left the world of visible light and entered the shadowy evil one.

You are slightly in error.

There are two realms... the Seen and the Unseen. You can think of them as physical and spiritual. The ring did push it's bearer into the unseen world, and could be used to gain power over it. The domination of other wills (spirits), etc.

I think that it's likely that the shift into the unseen world would have made a mortal invisible. It is also possible that a strong willed person could have learned to make themself visible while wearing the ring-remember, maia were 'by default' invisible spirits, they had to exert themselves to form a physical body. So they were simply increased in power by the ring, the physical construct would have likely still worked.

[Christiana]

Tom's Elvish name was Iarwain Ben-adar, occuring to Elrond.
And in Apendix B it states clearly that Gandalf died and returned 2 life.