09-29-2002, 07:08 PM | #21 |
Elf Lord
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He also called it his 'magnum opus'. ::dances around with her copy of "Letters" over her head:: I gots it, I gots it!
Yeah...hoom...those ents. I wasn't really disappointed with the ent storyline, only the lack of information on entwives, and how tragic it seemed. No more entlings..hoom.
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09-30-2002, 03:40 AM | #22 |
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Right! The Ents!
What I was talking about was just a rumour that, I believe, Sam mentioned. (At some point in the non-trilogy. Well you could say "trilogy" if you were talking about three books that go together as part of the overall epic... never mind. Book... I like it.)
Anyway another Entish point I'm confused on is Hurons. Treebeard described them briefly (especially for an Ent) but I'm still confused as to how they differ from Ents exactly. |
09-30-2002, 03:44 AM | #23 |
the Shrike
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Huorns are ents that have become more "tree-ish."
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10-01-2002, 01:08 AM | #24 |
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?
That's the only difference? Well, it does make sense... I also thought they were more hostile or something. But I could be massively wrong.
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10-01-2002, 06:44 AM | #25 |
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
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I got the same impression Nurvingiel. I thought Huorns were more violent and volatile than ents and that the ents needed to keep the Huorns a little in check.
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10-03-2002, 12:02 AM | #26 |
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Not all Huyrn (if that's the right plural) were violent. There were plenty that were good-hearted. BeardofPants has it right: Huyrn were either trees that were becoming Entish, or Ents that were becoming trees, or both.
An example of Huorns that don't appear particularly dangerous to Free persons are the Evergreens standing outside Treebeard's home, that lift their boughs for him at the entrance, or the naked tree on the edge of Fangorn that warms its branches over the fire of the Three Hunters. Or there is Leaflock (one of the three eldest Ents of Fangorn), who's slowly becoming more and more like a tree. Technically he was still an Ent, but he was on his way to Huorn-status. Even if you look at the Old Forest, as much genuine resentment was harbored there for the two-legged, Tolkien said that many trees there were under the tyrannical rule of Old Man Willow, who's roots were extremely deep and far-reaching.
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10-03-2002, 12:14 AM | #27 |
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Huyrn (hmm) where, IMO, another manifestation of class in the same way as Sam's relationship to Frodo (master). Think of a large brooding crowd of labor strikers.
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10-03-2002, 01:11 AM | #28 |
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That's how I always thought of it, too, Cirdan. And since the Ents were shepherds, the things that they shepherded obviously needed shepherding (hey, three forms of "shepherd" in one sentence! Are those words spelled right? They sure look weird!) So the Huorns were kind of a simpler, less intelligent form of Ents. The idea of Ents going into Huorns fits in, too - they kind of sink into Huorn-ness if they get lazy and don't keep striving to do their job.
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10-03-2002, 02:00 AM | #29 |
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I took a hike into the high country last month, and surely a tree stepped in front of me as I walked into it at full step. The mighty Douglas Firs and Ceders, remind me of Ents as they are so mighty. They have become so treeish these days. My day hike last week had their roots tripping me up alot.
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10-03-2002, 02:34 AM | #30 |
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LOL!
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
10-03-2002, 05:10 AM | #31 |
The Quite Querulous Quendi
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Never thought of ents as shop stewards before, though it does fit in with the role of Saruman as arch-capitalist.
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10-03-2002, 02:14 PM | #32 |
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Communism and Ents
The Ents are the total opposite of Saruman, and they were even enemies before Saruman 'lost the war'.
Does that mean Ents are like Communists? We don't know a lot about them, it's entirely possible that they have a system central planning to decide what, how much, and how often to produce goods. They could also decide who gets what in this way. However, they wouldn't be purely communist, because we know they have meetings which include eveyone to decide important actions. Entmoot! |
10-03-2002, 02:42 PM | #33 |
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brothers and sisters unite, we have nothing to lose but our shrubs
Definitely onto something here... why should communist mean NOT consulting people? (The word Soviet means an assembly of representatives at whatever level: local or national.) The Ents were the only people anywhere in LOTR whose leaders actually consulted their people before doing anything.
Come to think of it, the descriptions of Treebeard's beard... sounds a bit like Fidel! Actually, it seems more like the Ents were anarchists; it was the Entwives who wanted to run a command economy. SPLITTERS! (Something tells me that the thesis of LOTR as socialist tract isn't going to stand up to rigorous examination.) Last edited by Dunadan : 10-03-2002 at 02:46 PM. |
10-03-2002, 10:49 PM | #34 |
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er... i always just thought ents were talking tree people who like being unhasty. now theres communism...sitings...hiking... now ents are hiking seeing communists! yikes help
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10-04-2002, 12:24 AM | #35 |
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Well they were definitely isloationists
There is a cnsistent theme throughout the book about a class of nobility (lords, kings, decendants, stewards) and the lesser class. They are dipicterd differently but not in an adversarial way, at least when they are on the same side of the conflict. Officer class and the common footsoldiers. Communism? yoinks!
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10-08-2002, 12:28 AM | #36 |
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I'm just talking...
Well, they could have been Communist, however, we don't really know enough about Ents to conclusively say what kind of government they had.
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10-08-2002, 12:45 AM | #37 |
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Okay, an anthropological perspective: generally that level of complex social hierarchy/specialisation requires both a sizable population (which the ents did not have) and relatively advanced technology (which they also did not have as they were pastoral.) So I think the likelihood of ents being communist is very very slim.
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10-08-2002, 01:18 AM | #38 |
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I had the impression that most of the Ents basically stayed in one place for a while watching over Fangorn and soakin some rays. They would probably move around occasionally, but not enought that they would meet and talk with a lot of other Ents on a regular basis. Therefore, since the word 'commun'ist implies some sort of community, it doesn't make sense that they would be communists because they were *somewhat* isolated from each other. Actually, I don't think they even had any sort of organised government at all.
Of, course this is all opinion and speculation (which is why it's so much fun). |
10-08-2002, 11:29 AM | #39 |
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Somebody who takes it all far too seriously can be found at:
http://csf.colorado.edu/forums/pfvs/.../msg01573.html However, it's pretty obvious that Tolkien hated industrialisation and hankered after a bygone era when everyone knew their place. The exception was ents, who didn't seem to know their place. I like to picture George W explaining to Treebeard why he's not interested in the Kyoto protocol... |
10-09-2002, 03:18 AM | #40 |
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That guy was hard core
I checked out your link Dunadan! You know you read into Tolkein a little too much when... you find more in it then Tolkein did!
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